talkmagic.co.uk

Come on Boys,

Rape is a truly horrible Crime. And while we don't know who did what to whom and why or if, well, the thing is, at the moment, at least we should have some empathy or at the very least if empathy can't be managed, sympathy for the girl.

It's all too easy for a boy to be a bit more, dominant than a girl might want, and often without him even knowing it fully consciously.

We both look at sexual encounters very differently, and oddly, in so many things, men think that women think or feel differently than they do, after all, how many of you have thought "gosh, she's so ridiculously emotional, over a silly plant for goodness sake or whatever." Yet, with sex, it seems the boys sometimes think that men and women think exactly alike. Strange if you think about it. We are different when it benefits what you want and then the same when it, well, benefits what you want. It's just a thought.

So, while I truly feel bad for whoever is the victim here, at the moment, I feel badly for the girl, though I know nothing of the case just because it would be so easy for a man with lots of charisma to be used to getting what he wants and for him to assume a girl wants him for his looks or money or whatever. Not all girls are like that, boys. Some are, of course, but just as all boys aren't the same, all girls aren't the same either.

I truly hope that this case is solved honestly and the right person is brought to justice, regardless of which one of them it is. All I'm trying to say here is that few of you yet have said, hey, that poor girl, how horrible. I suppose that may be because you are not girls and thus have no way to understand what it might be like to be the receptive one in a relationship, or well, there are innumerable reasons why you might not think of such things, so, I just thought I'd toss out a side of the coin that seems to be overlooked for some reason.

Rape is not done for money, it is a thing of power. And that is very wrong. I feel badly this happened because I've always loved David's magic and his career and such a thing will be a problem even if he is the victim here. I also don't think this will be really good for magicians as a whole. It will make at the very least, some people look at us with cynical eyes. And that is sad.

Love,

Amanda Angeli

Let us all remember, that Copperfield is innocent until proven guilty. It is my understanding that no formal charges have been made. The FBI is conducting an ongoing investigation...which could prove that the allegations have no merit, whatsoever.

monker59 wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:

monker59 wrote:They found $2,000,000 in cash! That's frickin' amzaing!

For a guy that grosses well over $60 mil annually that kind of cash really isn't all that unusual, especially given some of the "compulsions" David is known to have.

But why does he need to have it in cash in a random warehouse?


Also, he's not being accused of rape. He's been accused of sexual misconduct.

You obviously haven't a clue as to what that place is like

Yes, there is a massive warehouse involved plus a huge museum area and what David call's his "Apartment" which is a bit more room and decorated nicer than most people's homes...

If you are a visiting guest the experience starts with going through the doors of the storefront "Butch's Bra Factor"... here you will find a collection of some of the most famous bras and breasts in show biz history... go into the dressing room and push the nipple and voila! the dressing mirror swings open and you are inside the warehouse itself...

BEFORE entering the museum area you must remove your shoes. If David likes you and wants to spend time chatting with you he'll invite you to the apartment once you've done the tour of the museum.

There's more to the whole thing but that's the gist of the situation.

Having that kind of cash on hand has a special reason as well... IMPULSE SHOPPING!

When I was last there he & Claudia were still playing house. She saw an outfit she wanted so they call the owner of the boutique at 11 in the evening to open the store just for her... she paid cash on the spot for a complete collection by this particular designer.

When money people of this sort buy a "wardrobe" they are dropping tens of thousands of dollars a shot... David has suits that cost $15,000.00 or more... then again, he still has the same beat up Pontiac he had 30 years ago when I first met him and maintains his West Hollywood apartment as his "L.A. Office"... in short, he's a pack rat.

Having that kind of "Petty Cash" on hand for people that have the kind of money David, Sigfried & Roy and others such personalities have, ain't that big a deal or that unusual. I have friends that no one has heard of outside their own family perhaps, who have ready access to hundreds of thousands of dollars in their home and frequently seeded about in different locations as an "emergency fund"... in David's case, I'm surprised on one said anything about jewelry... by tradition Jewish people tend to have more than an exceptional stock-pile of diamonds, emeralds, and other such items in that they and gold are accepted during those times when minted coin and currency has no value. Again, this is something I know because of some of these folks that were gracious enough to allow me into their world in my younger days and to some extent, even today.

A Little Lesson... Many years ago I was developing a project for Ford's Lincoln-Mercury division known as "Collision Course" (driving a car through a solid block wall -- totally surrounded in the center of a football stadium, the wall mounted on the deck of a flatbed tailer so you could see under & around...)

Long story short, I was very nervous about turning in the final budget breakdown on the project... $675,000.00 to build the thing, perform it three times (all the client wanted) then "destroy" it (that's a strange term to most but common practice in the marketing world). My "mentor" of that world was VP of one of the largest PR companies in Beverly Hills and he chuckled at my naiveté, pointing out that the introduction party I'd done just a few months previous for this same company cost over THREE MILLION DOLLARS for one night and for people like this, that kind of money was "trivial". Too, he pointed out that if my bid on the project came in too low, I'd loose the opportunity in that they would not place value into it if it were something that could be done for 25 or 30% the rate I was quoting.

In other words, it's perception. To people that juggle hundreds of millions of dollars a day... billions a year... a half a million or several million is little more that "pocket money"

I know, it overwhelms me too.

Craig Browning wrote:Granted, PAYING SOMEONE TO SCREAM "RAPE" is a bit bizarre at best, but just like taking on a would be parking lot thief (last year) it gets your name in the papers, on the air, etc. at virtually little to no cost to you... it adds to your legend so to speak and has NOTHING to do with "Magic" as we typically perceive it.

Have you any idea, any idea AT ALL, just how serious a false accusation of rape is for the accuser? Clearly, none at all is the answer. Have you any idea, any idea AT ALL, just how serious a false accusation of rape is for the accused? Again, clearly none at all is the answer.

Tomo wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:Granted, PAYING SOMEONE TO SCREAM "RAPE" is a bit bizarre at best, but just like taking on a would be parking lot thief (last year) it gets your name in the papers, on the air, etc. at virtually little to no cost to you... it adds to your legend so to speak and has NOTHING to do with "Magic" as we typically perceive it.

Have you any idea, any idea AT ALL, just how serious a false accusation of rape is for the accuser? Clearly, none at all is the answer. Have you any idea, any idea AT ALL, just how serious a false accusation of rape is for the accused? Again, clearly none at all is the answer.

Do you have a clue as to how many people that know David and know more about the situation than you do have reason to suspect that this scenario may be more correct than not.

I have far more "clues" about things than you want to give me credit for John... and your reaction... the tone of it as well as the intent of making me look "buffoon" to your supposed intellect; well, it certainly reveals how desperate you are to attempt to trump me at every opportunity for some asinine reason that many people seem to have a "clue" about (have noticed) and you fluidly deny.

Come down from your ego-enshrouded throne Tomo, you have a very long way to go before your put-downs will ever elevate you to anything close to where I've been, am at or what I've accomplished in this industry... something you seem very jealous about... even obsessed. One friend of mine even asked me if you were my secret stalker in that he's noticed the psychological games you love to play with me... and others for whom you seem to host loathing.

I shared the supposition on this instance because it is what the insiders are considering as a possible truth (it wouldn't be the first time David has "paid for" non-magic related attention in the form of rumor and allusion). Some of us actually do know these people... I've known David for about 30 years, though we aren't "chums" we are to some level "friends" and we do talk at times... then again, I talk to many that work with the guy on a regular basis as well e.g. what I've tabled is merely part of the insider rumor track or, theory. So please, take the big brain and education of yours and kindly keep it out of my way. I've grown very tired a your random and unprovoked attacks on my character, my resume, and me as a human being. You sir are the lowest kind of Cad in that you have tons of potential and insist on pissing on the wrong folks while sucking up to those your "think" will help graduate you through the ranks. Like so many "well read" individuals, you buy into what you find in books and the "Who's Who" of things found on the surface vs. those less "celebrated" as it were.

BTW... your knack at threatening me via IM/PM wont' fly this time. Other's have seen your previous "suggestions" as it were and trust me, it's not something they are overly fond of.

There's one important lesson Mr. Copperfield can teach a young buck like you, something I've heard him share with other young people and it is something I not only witnessed but felt a bit of. You see, when his success was growing David saw himself as unbeatable, he'd dethroned Henning after all. His stepped on, stole from and pi**ed on a hell of a lot of his early year supporters in order to obtain his mountain, as it were. Then he found himself on top of the heap with no friends or "family" so to speak and a very ugly reputation from within the industry. Something that he warns young people about in that as he began loosing his "success" and faced challenges via the new trends and younger (sexier) personalities hitting the scene, he had to face those peers he'd used as rungs to a ladder and in some instances, a door mat.

We all come face to face with the people in our lives upon two occasions in life; when we are moving up in the world and when we fall back down. It's always better to know that we've always treated the majority of folks with some dignity and respect vs. looking down our noses at them via an out of place sense of personal ego and false-piety.

Craig Browning wrote: It's always better to know that we've always treated the majority of folks with some dignity and respect vs. looking down our noses at them via an out of place sense of personal ego and false-piety.

pot...kettle...

Craig Browning wrote:BTW... your knack at threatening me via IM/PM wont' fly this time. Other's have seen your previous "suggestions" as it were and trust me, it's not something they are overly fond of.

What the hell are you on about now? What "suggestions"?

I've rarely PM'd you ever, Craig. In fact, I think I could probably count the number of times on the fingers of one hand. The last (and, as it happens, I decided last ever, for very good reasons) time I PM'd you, on Seb Black's forum back in July, I asked you to stay away from me and my work. Here's why. If you remember, I discovered that you'd been implying that I didn't want you to comment on my book. What I'd actually done was ignore your requests for a free copy. Especially the second one. You don't automatically get a copy of Naked Mentalism just because you're "Craig Browning". I PM'd you to explain why, and you sent a tirade of bile back covering everything from your health to some idea that I was leaving "little land-mines" for you all over the place. Hence I asked you to simply stay away from me and my work. I don't want the kind of help that does that. End of story.

And I've never used Instant Messaging, so I have no idea where that one came from. It's not even installed on any of my computers.

So, what's this really about? You usually explode when someone doubts your knowledge of a subject. In this case, I'm saying that I believe it preposterous that anyone would engineer a false accusation of rape for publicity. It's deeply offensive, especially to victims of the real thing. That is all.

Nuff said.

abraxus wrote:

Craig Browning wrote: It's always better to know that we've always treated the majority of folks with some dignity and respect vs. looking down our noses at them via an out of place sense of personal ego and false-piety.

pot...kettle...

And let's see who you are cozying up with now days???

That's right, Michael Jay and Tomo... two individuals who believe it their calling to give me grief and try to make me look like a fool as often as they can wherever they can.

I so loathe the social-political games of this industry.

really? i've cozied up to tomo ages before that!

the fact is craig, you're often hoisted by your own petard...

i have several pm's from you that after you've slated me publicly, you've then gone on to say the complete opposite privately...just very strange behaviour...calling me boring, a magician, and how you want to retreat away from people "like me" because they drag mentalism down...

be consistant please...

anyway, before this is locked and binned, i really dont think anyone would want "rapist" as publicity...i think people who are used to getting their own way and told yes all the time are often quite aggressive when told no...

Craig Browning wrote:That's right, Michael Jay and Tomo... two individuals who believe it their calling to give me grief and try to make me look like a fool as often as they can wherever they can.

How come I hardly ever interact with you, then? This instance being a case in point.

This stuff on your apology thread about following you around is very interesting. I was a member here long before you, and on the Magic Woods and Mentalist's Sanctum too, so I can;t have followed you there. I joined the Magic Bunny on 19th Jan this year and the Magic Cafe on June 25th this year. Both a long time after you were banned. I joined a couple of private lists after you, but who else hasn't? I'm also a member of a few forums you're not. We clash when you say something outrageous.

Yeah, you're a fascinating person and you know a lot about mentalism, but you also come out with some outrageous claims. Did you honestly think no one would follow them up out of idle curiosity? Personally, I'd never heard of you, but you seemed to have a long an illustrious career behind you. Who wouldn't want to find out more? Unfortunately, it's all so muddled that only you'll know the truth.

moonbeam wrote:

monker59 wrote:They found [b]$2,000,000[/b] in cash! That's frickin' amzaing!

.... and for those who don't believe it (like me, initially lol ) - here it is

The mind boggles as to why anyone would want to keep £2 million dollars in their house .

how can you have £2 million dollars

Tomo wrote:

Craig Browning wrote:BTW... your knack at threatening me via IM/PM wont' fly this time. Other's have seen your previous "suggestions" as it were and trust me, it's not something they are overly fond of.

What the hell are you on about now? What "suggestions"?

I've rarely PM'd you ever, Craig. In fact, I think I could probably count the number of times on the fingers of one hand. The last (and, as it happens, I decided last ever, for very good reasons) time I PM'd you, on Seb Black's forum back in July, I asked you to stay away from me and my work. Here's why. If you remember, I discovered that you'd been implying that I didn't want you to comment on my book. What I'd actually done was ignore your requests for a free copy. Especially the second one. You don't automatically get a copy of Naked Mentalism just because you're "Craig Browning". I PM'd you to explain why, and you sent a tirade of bile back covering everything from your health to some idea that I was leaving "little land-mines" for you all over the place. Hence I asked you to simply stay away from me and my work. I don't want the kind of help that does that. End of story.

And I've never used Instant Messaging, so I have no idea where that one came from. It's not even installed on any of my computers.

So, what's this really about? You usually explode when someone doubts your knowledge of a subject. In this case, I'm saying that I believe it preposterous that anyone would engineer a false accusation of rape for publicity. It's deeply offensive, especially to victims of the real thing. That is all.

Nuff said.

Funny Jon... I have major personalities that just send me their material out of respect/homage and those that openly share their material when I am working on projects that I wish to reference them on, etc.

Yes, I get "FREE" books and more... don't deny it (are you jealous?)

Truth is, I've earned the right over the years to receive such "gifts" from people, most of which I get completely unsolicited...even non-magic related books.

I wanted a copy of your book for three reasons;
1.) I was being asked about it and couldn't answer people's questions
2.) I'd heard good things about it and wanted to give you some kudos even though we don't agree on a lot of things... you see, I'm able to set personalities to the side most of the time and see where value exists.
3.) I'm used to folks honoring my requests in that they know my situation presently and realize that I'm not being a mooch... suck-up or any of those other wonderful concepts you've been referring to me as being.

I have gone out of my way trying to ignore your little jabs and other ploys that let you look like the "good guy" and, as we see here, "the innocent victim" of my maniac ravings and paranoia... you're good at this game, I bet you've played it most of your life on many others that you both, envied and looked down upon for one reason or another.

Everyone that knows me and know of this "tension" between us also knows that behind closed doors I've NEVER said one bad thing about you other than my being completely amiss as to why you insist on harassing me, to the point of having a personal file on me that you randomly and conveniently pull from every now and then just to put me on the defensive or to stir a reaction of some sort that paints me in a negative light... your attempts fail.

The PM @ Sebastian's had a direct threat tied to it about my getting in your way or poisoning the pool when it comes to your plans... well bud, you screwed up in a big way in that many have seen your game with me and even asked me why you're such a prick when it comes to me. Frankly, we are all sick and tired of it and if Abraxus want to suck up with you that's perfectly fine but SB's forum has been my sanctuary since before is started; there are far more old timers and old school thinkers there than you'll find in the traditional magician's forums, so I'd suggest you wake up and see how I can be your best bud or your worse nightmare;

I'm not hiding these exchanges with PMs in that I want folks to see you for what you really are -- a Cad. A spineless worm that takes pride in carefully wording his attacks on someone that is known to have a plethora of health issues and literally lost huge segments of his mental capacity to cop... but I bet you pulled the wings of flies and tormented the mentally retarded in your youth as well... at least this seems your pattern and more perfected mode of being... forever the "innocent" at first glance but not when scrutinized.

You said rather boldly, that I hadn't a clue on things... that, in so many words, I was being a fool and an idiot with what I presented. You sparked this flame to life now you will deal with the consequences in that I'm simply to tired, ill, and enraged by your constant games and denial. But I'm not running away this time...I'm not, as several have encouraged already this morning, ignoring you and walking away.

I've tried several times to be nice, to be supportive and encouraging and all I've ever seen from you is flack. It's a shame given just how many of the VIP types you want to suck up to, value my in-put on people -- my "low station" as it were, serving a higher purpose.

For someone so freaking brilliant John, you're an idiot.

Oh just go away. You leave me alone. I'll leave you alone.

Agreed?

you see this? .

that's the world's smallest violin being played....

signing off, i've got more sucking up to do!

I've been trying to bite my tongue on this one, but I've had enough now.

Craig, I've stuck up for you plenty of times when I've thought people have been unfair towards you but this time I think you've over stepped the mark, been way out of line and owe Tomo a big appology.