talkmagic.co.uk

Lady of Mystery wrote:I've been trying to bite my tongue on this one, but I've had enough now.

Craig, I've stuck up for you plenty of times when I've thought people have been unfair towards you but this time I think you've over stepped the mark, been way out of line and owe Tomo a big appology.

Lady, you aint' seen what this putz and his buddies have been doing to me on more than one forum for the past year or so... even when I've gone out of my way to be nice, only to have him bring up and question something about my past or insinuate that I'm a liar, or in this case, that I have "no clue" about things.

Until he and his cohorts stop with their games, this bear has become carnivorous.

It's obvious that you've both got differences and that you seem to clash over them. But turning around and saying 'but miss, he started it' really isn't helping the situation.

You're both very talented and I've got huge respect for both of you, you've probabaly forgotten more than I'll ever know. But this arguement is just getting silly, you need to respect each other. Is there any need to be slinging insults on a public forum? I don't really care about what's happened in the past and to be honest all this scrapping like school boys is making you look rather silly.

I'd expect it from the little oiks that we get on here sometimes but you pair really should know better and act with a little more dignity.

YOU brought MY name into this Craig. I said nothing, I left you alone, but still you feel the urge to bring my name up. I was going to stay out of it, but since you've specifically brought me in...

I'd like to know why everytime that someone disagrees with you, you accuse them of stalking you. Both Tomo and myself were members here before you....If anything Craig, you are stalking us.

And, do you ever consider, at any time Craig, that maybe, just maybe, you are wrong? Oh, no, bad question...Of course you don't. Because you are infallible.

Jesus, Craig, get over yourself.

And, in the future, leave me out of it.

Thank you.

Mike.

thing is though lomster, i never do anything other than try and contribute, share and help out...you know that don't you eh...

yet i get accused of sucking up, of taking sides and so on, when all i've ever wanted is to enjoy myself, have a bit of banter and share some ideas and develop...

i never name-drop, i have a small circle of friends i help as much as i can, and ask for nothing in return ever...i do it cos i wanna...end of...

i get sick of being "told" things as being gospel..when there are very few gospels in the first place, just different points of views...but when you get snarled at and insulted for no reason, it just slowly fills up my sh*t-tank until it spills out over the floor...

i work my hairy haunches off being the best that i can be...might not be all that much, but if someone snipes for no good reason, i snipe back...

anyway lomster, shouldnt you be preparing dave's tea by now?

I know that Abraxus, and both you and Tomo have been a great help to me, in lots of different ways.

I don't really understand what's going on here or know any of the background. But I really can't imagine the Tomo is the snake in the grass that Craigs trying to make him out to be. And I'm not really sure how you've got pulled into this, I've certainly never seen any sucking up just some good, creative exhanges of ideas and honest opinions.

But there is obviously some history here that I don't know about and that's why I'm trying so hard to hold back.

But I do have to say that it's looking like Craig had flown off the handle here. You say you're a carniverous (I know, I can't spell) bear but to be perfectly honest it looks to me like that bear's got a sore tooth. Please Craig, just walk away, take a deep breath and come back when you've calmed down. Otherwise you're only going to upset more people.

Well, here's the real deal, folks:

Craig is stating that he has insider information as to the fact that this whole rape charge is nothing more than a stunt to garner press.

The FBI is involved.

If what Craig is saying is true, then Craig is doing a terrible disservice to David Copperfield because if it is a false accusation brought about by Copperfield himself, then Copperfield will be going to jail.

In the United States, it is illegal to do such things. And Craig, who claims to have Copperfield as a friend, is making public some important evidence that will help to put Copperfield in jail.

Not something that I would personally do to another person who I claim to be friends with...

Mike.

Sorry for sticking my nose in here, but from my reading of the subject, Craig said that he would not be surprised if it was some sort of stunt, as things like this have been done in the past. He did not say he knew this was a stunt of some sort.

Browning wrote:Do you have a clue as to how many people that know David and know more about the situation than you do have reason to suspect that this scenario may be more correct than not.

I have far more "clues" about things than you want to give me credit for John... and your reaction... the tone of it as well as the intent of making me look "buffoon" to your supposed intellect; well, it certainly reveals how desperate you are to attempt to trump me at every opportunity for some asinine reason that many people seem to have a "clue" about (have noticed) and you fluidly deny.

Sounds like more of an accusation than a supposition to me...All this does is add fuel to a fire of evidence for a federal case against Copperfield (assuming, of course, that Craig really does have insider information and that Craig is being truthful when he says that he is a friend of Copperfield).

If Copperfield were a friend of mine, I sure as hell wouldn't be posting such things on a public forum. Then again, I don't have a need to "prove" anything and would keep my mouth shut, rather than take a chance of providing evidence to a federal investigation.

But, I'm not C. Browning.

Mike.

The way I see this. Tomo dont like Craig. Craig dont like tomo. Tomo wrote a book craig asked for a free copy craig didnt get free copy.

Craig says he wants to give kudos and not poison the pool. Tomo said he will go his way and Craig should go his.

In building blocks there is an aptly named effect called : Divided by hate.

woah, put those handbags away please gentlemen...

just to add to the information regarding Mr Copperfield, it has been reported on the BBC News wesbite this afternoon that he has 'axed his shows in south-east Asia' following the FBI raid on his warehouse.

link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7056856.stm

Craig has a bad name on most magic forums for being a sanctimonious, know-it-all, arrogant, pain in the a$$.
I used to respect his posts and they seemed to be full of good advice but in recent times they are the rants of someone who almost, but not quite, made it and has seen all his contemporaries do well whilst he was left behind. Which explains his vitriol towards younger magicians.

There are so many uncalled for digs in his posts and his is always the FINAL WORD. Even recently I noticed he slyly compared Outlaw to Ellusionist in a snidey way which is completely uncalled for. Will me next purchase be Outlaw's highly regarded 'Reflections' or Craig's "Critters"?
Hmm, let me think....

Craig, get rid of the jealousy and bitterness towards people that are doing something good. Just because you didn't quite make the grade, don't take it on people who have.

you are getting critters arent you Freddie?

Is it jealousy or is it the idea of change and the youth of today arent doing what the old'ens are doing. In my day youi had to brand an ESP symbol in your arm before you was allowed to buy 13 steps.

magikmax wrote:...it has been reported on the BBC News wesbite this afternoon that he has 'axed his shows in south-east Asia' following the FBI raid on his warehouse.

Copperfield is under a federal investigation. While I'm not a lawyer, I'm pretty sure that leaving the country isn't one of Copperfield's choices at this time.

Mike.

Due to complaints from several members, this thread has been locked whilst I read it...

Ok these are my personal thoughts on this thread. They do not necessarily represent the thoughts of any other mods.

1. The topic itself isn’t one I was particularly interested in, in the first place. It seemed to be little more than gossip, that could be potentially damaging to an innocent man. The fact that this man is perhaps the best known living magician was immaterial to me and doesn’t automatically make it a topic to be discussed on a magic forum. I hate (with a passion) gossipy – sensationalist journalism.

If anywhere at all, it would (IMHO) have been better off in the Doves Head

2. By the time the rape allegation was mentioned I was already thinking of deleting or locking the thread. It was obvious the only facts we knew were coming from the press and as such they were very unreliable. IMO Rape is a crime that even the hint of an allegation can at best change how we think of someone. Even when found innocent there is always that “well maybe he was guilty” thought that we can’t help to think about. IMO it is not something that should be discussed in a magic forum.

3. Craig makes a post that asks us to consider the fact that the rape allegation could be a publicity stunt started by David Copperfield himself. Craig has reported in the past that he knows Mr. Copperfield which could (or could not) add to the plausibility of the question he posed.

4. Tomo made a comment that he though Craig’s suggestion of publicity stunt was ridiculous as the stigma of Rape could NEVER be a good thing.

For the record. Tomo’s thoughts echoed my own. I believe it would be the act of a mad man to even think of doing such a thing for publicity. No matter how desparate.

Having said that. I don’t understand the mentality of a kamikaze pilot, or a suicide bomber. Sometimes people do things that don’t make sense unless you can walk in someone else’s boots. I still think it ludicrous, but I accept that stranger things happen at sea (take the Mary Celeste for example)

5. Craig then took Tomo’s post personally.

Craig Browning wrote:Do you have a clue as to how many people that know David and know more about the situation than you do have reason to suspect that this scenario may be more correct than not.

Fair enough. Tomo probably doesn’t know.

Craig Browning wrote:and your reaction... the tone of it as well as the intent of making me look "buffoon" to your supposed intellect; well, it certainly reveals how desperate you are to attempt to trump me at every opportunity for some asinine reason that many people seem to have a "clue" about (have noticed) and you fluidly deny.

IMO no one was making anyone look like a buffoon. Tomo was merely making a comment on a provocative statement. The fact that Craig took this so personally and saw it as an insult actually seemed to me to be a little bit paranoid. Sorry Craig. That is how it reads.

There was no need for that statement to be made. Strike one.

Craig Browning wrote:Come down from your ego-enshrouded throne Tomo, you have a very long way to go before your put-downs will ever elevate you to anything close to where I've been…

oh dear oh dear. Out of order Mr. Browning.


6. To be honest after this point it was just Craig attacking Tomo and everyone that tried to point out he was out of order. It seems to me that Craig feels there is some sort of conspiracy against him. Tomo and others did try and defend themselves, but as I see it that is all they did.

So. My verdict.

Craig – IMO, I agree with Lady of Mystery. You (at the very least) owe Tomo an apology. Are you big enough to accept that? Are you big enough to do it?

I will leave everyone else you insulted for now as I am sure that by apologising to Tomo (unreservedly) they will accept your apology is also aimed at them.

I will unlock this thread. I would rather Craig the only person to respond. I would rather Craig’s post is an apology.

If Craig uses it for anything other than an apology – then he should consider whether or not he wishes to carry on posting here.

Craig – I like you. I Like what you have to say. In this case though I feel you are out of order. I am risking the chance that you will feel I am part of a conspiracy, and that would be a shame. I am not. I do not even believe there is a conspiracy.

As I mentioned at the beginning – this post is purely my own opinion and not necessarily that of the other mods.