talkmagic.co.uk

smoke:fire
smoke:mirrors

bananafish wrote:

Ok these are my personal thoughts on this thread. They do not necessarily represent the thoughts of any other mods.

1. The topic itself isn’t one I was particularly interested in, in the first place. It seemed to be little more than gossip, that could be potentially damaging to an innocent man. The fact that this man is perhaps the best known living magician was immaterial to me and doesn’t automatically make it a topic to be discussed on a magic forum. I hate (with a passion) gossipy – sensationalist journalism.

If anywhere at all, it would (IMHO) have been better off in the Doves Head

2. By the time the rape allegation was mentioned I was already thinking of deleting or locking the thread. It was obvious the only facts we knew were coming from the press and as such they were very unreliable. IMO Rape is a crime that even the hint of an allegation can at best change how we think of someone. Even when found innocent there is always that “well maybe he was guilty” thought that we can’t help to think about. IMO it is not something that should be discussed in a magic forum.

Ultimately, I feel responsible...since I started this thread. It was not my intention to violate Forum Rules or start a ruckus between it's long standing members.
Since I live in the Las Vegas area, this news was all over the local networks. I posted it in the Miscellaneous section, since it seemed to fit the desciption of this Forum.
It is unfortunate that this thread incited such a backlash. It's my fault and I am to blame. I will accept whatever reprocussions the Mods decide upon.

Mark Williams

I don't think it was a publicity stunt but dafter things have happened and nothing would surprise me. This is America after all where lots of daft people abound. I do know that the whole Claudia Schiffer engagement thing was a sham from start to finish. The rape thing is just one step up.

Having said that getting real FBI agents involved doesn't sound like a publicity stunt to me. If it is it certainly isn't a very sensible one.

From what I know about David Copperfield the possibility of rape sounds ludicrous. He plain isn't hooked up for that sort of thing.

One thing that makes me thing there is something to all this is the fact that a search warrant was granted. No judge will grant such a warrant on flimsy evidence. There has to be real suspicion that a crime has taken place and that the premises may hold evidence. And there has to be proof presented to the judge to that effect.

We should wait and see what comes forth.

mark lewis wrote:I don't think it was a publicity stunt but dafter things have happened and nothing would surprise me. This is America after all where lots of daft people abound. I do know that the whole Claudia Schiffer engagement thing was a sham from start to finish. The rape thing is just one step up.

Having said that getting real FBI agents involved doesn't sound like a publicity stunt to me. If it is it certainly isn't a very sensible one.

From what I know about David Copperfield the possibility of rape sounds ludicrous. He plain isn't hooked up for that sort of thing.

One thing that makes me thing there is something to all this is the fact that a search warrant was granted. No judge will grant such a warrant on flimsy evidence. There has to be real suspicion that a crime has taken place and that the premises may hold evidence. And there has to be proof presented to the judge to that effect.

We should wait and see what comes forth.

I'm glad it was you that brought this out and not me Mark Now lets' see how many of the intellects around here figure out what you're not saying and why Rape charges such as those standing, are about as viable as getting oil and water to actually mix.

Now I've been asked to apologies to Tomo and I'll tell you right now global warming has prevented hell from freezing e.g. that ain't gonna to happen!

I've bent over backwards the past six months or better giving John kudos on posts, supporting him behind his back when other folks were shooting him down and even vouching for his "genius" within certain inner-circles of the Mentalists world few of you are even remotely aware exists...

NO, I'm NOT BRAGGING as some has alluded to. I am merely stating facts; there are forums for pros only as well as collectors only, and those that specialize in various odds & ends. I am a part of several such groups by way of direct invite based on what I've contributed to this craft (on the whole) over the course of my life and what I continue to give at no cost other than hoping some of the armchair experts out there might show some gratitude and respect vs. making me their life long project when it comes to belittling and harassing (because many know how easy it is to set me off... there's actually one group that got caught up in playing the "Taunting the Craig" game on one rather large green monster of a site a few years back.)

What can I say? I'm Irish with just enough Dutch & Cherokee blood running through my veins to make me a powder keg. On top of that I just loathe snot nosed kids who have the big IQ and some kind of degree that want to prove to the world that they ARE god's gift to the universe ( though I must confess to the fact that I helped raise one such monster).

The comment made by Tomo that lit this flame stated rather directly that I had no clue. It was worded in such a manner that basically said that I was an idiot and stupid for presenting the supposition that had been going around within a small niche groups since the story first broke... most in that group having some kind of connection to the Copperfield camp at some level... but let me clarify something here (given the expressed doubt that's been voiced)... I originally met David in the late 1970s in passing and then again in the early 80s when Irene Larsen introduced us formally, during an evening at the Magic Castle. We struck up a reasonable friendship... not chummy, chummy but more than just knowing one another as well.

Now I'll let those of you that think me a braggart and liar contemplate a bit of logic and "math" as it were... how can a person spend nearly 40 hours a week as a patron and "helper" of an establishment like the Magic Castle, for nearly six years and not get to meet and become part of the world of some of this industry's greatest legends? Especially when that individuals is #1 Grunt and Box Pusher for one of magic's most noted historians and effects technicians (in his day) and who was seen regularly, running with the other young "freaks" of the early 80s like Nick Night, Kevin James, Franz Harary, Dean Hankey and various others?

If you can prove that it's impossible to befriend most of the major players in this world under those conditions, then you can prove me the boastful liar that Lord Freddie and others are suggesting that I am. But you must also prove that I've not had my hands deeply involved with the Kirkham collection and that I never worked with Ken Whitaker/Creative Illusions and a few dozen other things that seem to create a great deal of envy in the minds of those living a "normal" life, working the 9-5 and rarely if ever having the opportunity to meet such folks let alone work with them.

Unfortunately I'm cursed with a peculiar sense of honesty and openness and don't hide much of anything about my life; good or bad. I'm possibly too revealing (and trusting) of folks in these forums and I do admit that there are some deep psychological reasons for this... but this is something few that don't exist more or less as a "shut-in" would understand. Then too, I'm a die-hard romantic that believes in people and loathes both, laziness and stupidity thus, I turn into a grumpy old bear and snap of the dumbsh-hits of the world in the hope of waking them up... sorry, I'm not some pacifist from the La-la world or liberalism; Call me silly, but I went through the school of hard knocks even with all that was "given" to me... I still had to pay and I paid in ways most of you would never consider... again, not bragging or pumping myself up only stating fact; most people in today's world simply aren't that dedicated to anything. It's like that commercial that's running right now; if you hate you job, get a new one... not happy in your relationship, get a new one... don't like your life, buy a new one... EVERYTHING is disposable and few can comprehend what "commitment" really means as well as sacrifice. The School of Hard Knocks will teach you this lesson in spades... if you let it.... if you are committed to your single deliberate point of focus, whatever that might be.

I'm not trying to justify my gruffness or explain it away. I'm merely stating the fact that I do bark and growl here and there and yet, most of those that I've called down and dressed down on things, if they give themselves some time to think about what I say and what I point them to, they find out I'm not the a-hole originally envisioned. In fact, several members here have sent me emails and PMs apologizing to me and thanking me for being the hard azz I am because it allowed them to see things in a much brighter light at the end of their journey; frequently a journey in which that tried things "their way" only to discover... (wait for it)... CRAIG WAS RIGHT (imagine that... experience trumps fantasy )

Yes, it is very easy to push my buttons at times.... especially when you happen to be the same one or two people
that push the buttons on a regular basis... used to be I could just avoid a given forum and the problem would rectify itself but now my nemesis has chosen to find me and my "safe havens". For someone that claims to have been part of certain forums before I was I find it rather ironic that they never started posting until the past six months or so... especially in a forum like the Mental Image which is primarily made up of old school mentalist & readers... in fact, I think our first skeptic came in as part of a challenge I posted on the Bunny some time back and he certainly had his eyes opened a bit when it comes to what "real" mentalism is vs. this diatribe everyone's been mimicking over the past six or eight years.

Another truth about me is that I give credit where it is due, even to those that have made it their hobby in life to play with my mind. As this little explosion has pointed out to me however (via emails and even a phone call or two) Mr. Thompson loves to plant his little dual-reality styled posts (such as the one that started this coo) so as to get reactions from others he's not overly fond of... interestingly, other old timers who hold points of view that Thompson don't agree with or support... so I know I'm not alone when it comes to these fun & games e.g. Mr. Thompson will never see an apology from me at any level until he decides to grow up a bit and stop with his chicanery.

If I'm booted from this sight after numerous promises that that would not happen and that I'd be safe here from this sort of scenario... well, whatever. I've noticed that Dale and a few other old timers aren't here as much as they used to be either... funny, we're the same ones some of these same individuals gave stressers to over at the Bunny, until they left.

And I'm not being paranoid when I say that certain individuals are deliberately playing a game. Tomo has upon more than one instance, cut & pasted information about me from web sites that are quite old as well as articles or things I posted, in some cases over a decade ago and yet, he brings them up randomly in the attempt to get my dander up and to embarrass me in some way. In his mind, I'm a fake and he has seemingly appointed himself as the Paladin that's going to bring me to justice and hold me in accounting before the Unholy See... so if that management and membership want me to apologies to this gent I'd suggest you have a very long chat with him first about his cunning of conduct and how he's managed to attack me and make himself the victim... YET AGAIN... at least, in your eyes.

I can assure you, there is a hell of a lot more to this than most of you are seeing or want to believe but as I have said, I live my life like an opened book for all to read... I hide little to nothing. In my day it was said that such was the sign of an honorable human being and somehow, I've had folks telling me it is wrong, from right here in this very forum. But it's my conscience and who I am... I wonder how open my detractors are about their lives and how much they strive to keep under lock & key?

So basically, you're not man enough to apologise then?

Lord Freddie wrote:So basically, you're not man enough to apologise then?

FRK wrote:smoke:fire
smoke:mirrors

Lord Freddie and FRK. I specifcially asked others not to add to this thread. Especially inflamatory remarks that can only worsen the situation. Your comments haven't helped and it has been noted that you ignored my request. Lord Freddie in particular - please take this public warning very seriously.

Mark Williams wrote:Ultimately, I feel responsible...since I started this thread. It was not my intention to violate Forum Rules or start a ruckus between it's long standing members.

Mark - you violated no rules and have no need to apologise. When I said I would have rather not seen the thread started - I didn't mean to imply you had done anything wrong, only that in my own opinion I don't like that sort of thing.

mark lewis wrote:I don't think it was a publicity stunt but dafter things have happened and nothing would surprise me.

Mark thank you for your comments - a little late perhaps, especially after the thread had already deteri..detereiate.. gone to pot, but actually an interesting point.

Craig Browning wrote:Now I've been asked to apologies to Tomo and I'll tell you right now global warming has prevented hell from freezing e.g. that ain't gonna to happen!

Thank you. At least we know where you stand.

Craig Browning wrote:The comment made by Tomo that lit this flame stated rather directly that I had no clue. It was worded in such a manner that basically said that I was an idiot and stupid for presenting the supposition that had been going around within a small niche groups since the story first broke...

I disagree. It wasn't worded at all like that. It could easily have been something I wrote and I can tell you catagorically that if it had been I wouldn't have been calling you an idiot.

Craig Browning wrote:If I'm booted from this sight after numerous promises that that would not happen and that I'd be safe here from this sort of scenario...

No promise has been made to anyone that they will not be booted. That is a fact. How could we make such a promise as we never know what anyone might say. I am sure that If I misbehave consistently I too would be booted.

Craig Browning wrote:well, whatever. I've noticed that Dale and a few other old timers aren't here as much as they used to be either... funny, we're the same ones some of these same individuals gave stressers to over at the Bunny, until they left.

Oh for goodness sake.

Don't bring Dale into this. I consider him a good friend. Sure he doesn't post here much. He has his reasons I am sure, but to be honest he doesn't post anywhere much these days. Please don't use other people to make your arguments. If Dale has an issue with talkmagic only he can say.

Craig Browning wrote:I can assure you, there is a hell of a lot more to this than most of you are seeing or want to believe

Maybe- Maybe not. From this thread alone though you were out of order. For that I asked you to apologise. You made your sentiments clear. That has been noted.

I do at least appreciate you took the time to reply.

The thread wll now be locked.