talkmagic.co.uk

Only 3-4% of traffic fatalities are from the motorway, the balance are split between town driving and rural driving. Now that Tricky has done his course he can cite these figures as well. The physics behind it is easy. Two cars going in the same direction will have an impact of one hitting the other, so a car going 80 hits a car going 60, the impact is 20. Two cars going in the opposite direction have a combined impact of their relative speeds: 30 (I was only doing 36) and 30 = 60....ouch! Combine this with the hidden nature of rural accidents (i.e. emergency services cannot get there) or the pedestrianised nature of the town areas, and you can see why the stats on fatalities lay out the way they do.

We can all surely be grateful to Tricky for making us all a bit more Speed Aware.

Personally, though I would be annoyed to have been nabbed in the first place, I would be glad to be sent on the course because it means keeping those 3 points off your licence!

I don't think it's as simple as "speed limits - good or bad?" because of so many differing situations.

For instance, our cars so much safer nowadays in terms of high speed collisions, so it does get my goat up when I'm pootling along at 70mph with a stern looking copper behind me on the motorway at 2am. I think we could just knock it up to 90mph and be stricter with the cut-off point, so that if you go over 100mph you're really scr*wed. And motorways are the roads really designed for getting somewhere quickly.

However, I too live in a quiet residential area - on a school road - and constantly see idiots hurtling round the blind bend on our road at 40mph. And that extra 10mph is really noticeable, in places where even 30mph seems a bit fast.

Unfortunately, the government/council get a bit trigger happy. There is a stretch of motorway through Leeds that for seemingly no reason is 50mph - in all honesty it's dangerous, I spend so much time checking the speedo that I'm not paying enough attention to the road. There are also plenty of places in Sheffield that are dual carriage way but 40 or even 30mph, because of a few tragic incidents.

Roads are dangerous, but providing it doesn't run right outside someone's door, I think people have to take responsibility for themselves and their children. I was reading an article about the French and their measures stop children falling in a fast-flowing stretch of river in Paris... a sign that says "hold your children's hand."

So, I'm very sorry to hear about that girl from your village Seige, but if it was simply caused by speed that means she cycled out into the road, and perhaps she shouldn't have been on her bike alone in the first place. I suspect it was more caused by dangerous driving, and dangerous driving is dangerous whatever the local limit - it's shame we all have to be penalised for this.

Joggers don't bother me, cos I obay the law and cycle on the road.

Motorists are (in my most humble opinion) the spawn of evil though. Especially 4x4 drivers who don't realise that their cars are actually wider than the road they're driving on.

Farlsborough wrote:So, I'm very sorry to hear about that girl from your village Seige, but if it was simply caused by speed that means she cycled out into the road, and perhaps she shouldn't have been on her bike alone in the first place. I suspect it was more caused by dangerous driving, and dangerous driving is dangerous whatever the local limit - it's shame we all have to be penalised for this.

The road in question is very difficult to read. There is a few houses either side of the road. The girl was crossing the road on her cycle, and although nobody is aware of the full facts, her mother was right behind her. The car was obeying the limits, and from the skidmarks and testing (the police were doing stop tests on the road, which was closed off, from around 8pm up to midnight!) it would seem the driver saw the child, and stopped safely, just after impact.

In this instance, as I mentioned before, the issue of speed crops up here only in as much as it is a good thing the driver was obeying the speed limit. (in fact, from what I gather, they were driving WELL WITHIN the 30mph limit).

The accident was more than likely the fault of the child, who should have known better. But the reason I brought this up is that if the driver had been going any faster, the child would have been killed. That is regardless of whose fault it was.

In fact, if the car HAD been going faster than 30mph, I am quite sure blame would have shifted from the child to the motorist. As it is, I think it's being treated as an accident.

pcwells wrote:Joggers don't bother me, cos I obay the law and cycle on the road.

Yep. Me too. We don't have pavements in these 'ere parts, so we all 'share' the road!


But when jogging around lanes, I do often find that cyclists are not aware that their stealthy silent approach from behind can be quite scary to a jogger. That's what bells are for!

And, as a cyclist, I find that joggers tend to jog in the centre of the road, and cannot hear the cycle approaching from behind, making it quite hairy on approach.

OMG... Don't get me started on roads with no pavements!

Especially as a cyclist... When some pea-brained boy racer swerves in to give you a scare (without caring that you have a toddler on the back seat) and you have nowhere to go... If I had hair, it would be white already.

my simple startergy... asume every other road user is going to do something stupid and dangerose, then when it happens your not phased and cause a problem yourself.
basicly i read the cars body-language and ergo the driver, saved me many a time, it also helps that i used to be a bike rider so i look over my shoulder when making turns and changing lanes and i don't asume that if a can't see them there not there, blind spots and all that.

magicdiscoman wrote:my simple startergy... asume every other road user is going to do something stupid and dangerose,

I'm the same.. stay well back on the motorway if you think someone in front is driving like an idiot drop further back!

Idiots over taking really annoys me, esp when they cut in front of you forcing you to break hard as they didnt judge on coming traffic speed.

What's really annoying is the pillocks who see stopping at traffic lights or while the car in front turns right as a legitimate reason to speed immediately afterwards to get to where they think they should have been by now, like they have a moral right to do so. Maybe speed cameras should be placed just after traffic lights.

Did anyone know that it's impossible to prevent yourself from smashing into the steering wheel if not wearing a seatbelt at anything above 12mph? I watched a programme about Ralph Nader and the introduction of seatbelts in the US a while back, and that fact stood out as remarkable. Humans simply aren't strong enough to prevent it, whether they're aware it's about to happen or not. At 40mph, it's a bit like being in the "up" position during a press up and trying to prevent yourself from smashing your face into the ground by being hit on the back of the head and neck by a bag of cement dropped from several feet up. Ban momentum! It's a killer!

Yeah, the laws of physics... bitches, every one of 'em

I'm a cyclist too, and have also done some motorbiking... I think the only perspective I'm missing is runner/jogger, and believe me when I tell you that that will NEVER HAPPEN!

Although maybe my tune will change when I'm the parent of a hyperactive toddler

I am glad this turned into a conversation (my intention) without it simply being Seige chastising me as if he was older, wiser and superior to me.


Dr Todd you seem well informed about the course have you been on it or did you help plan it? I was happy that a fireman was sitting next to me taking part in the course and was contradicting MOST of what the teacher was saying with his real life experience as opposed to her goverment given facts. She said every camera is put in place because of 4 major accidents happening in that spot, the fireman said 'rubbish' he was stationed for 7 years by a particular road without accidents when a camera popped up, in fact he went on to talk about the danger of cameras how people see them and slam on the brakes causing collisions. Everyone on the course was well over 30 with no boy racers and had been caught doing between 30 and 37mph. I have witnessed 2 children die after being hit by cars, both occaisions the children had run into the road. Who's fault is that? The cars were driving on main roads. As sad and disturbing as it was seeing life leave a small child i never felt angry towards the driver, no one blamed them or pointed out 'if you were driving at 20mph that little boy would be alive'. The car was on the road were it should be, the child ran into the road were he shouldnt be.

You know what, it is fine to disagree with people or even to correct people but manners cost nothing.

Trickyfied wrote:You know what, it is fine to disagree with people or even to correct people but manners cost nothing.

I wholeheartedly agree. And glad you have seen sense and the course did you some good, even though you disagreed with going on it. Now you've calmed down, it would seem you have actually learned something from your speeding offence. Although it still seems that you're banging on about speed and are still missing the point of examples. Shame really!

See, Tricky... every day is a schoolday

I may not be older, but evidently wiser... as it took you being caught to discover what the rest of us already knew.

This is only slightly related, but on my way home from work just now, I was stopped in traffic when all of a sudden this motorcycle appears out of nowhere and takes out my wing mirror! Smashed to smithereens. I didn't even get a chance to glimpse the number plate, seemed like he/she was doing about 100mph. Made me jump out of my skin, too. Grrr!

Bicycle808 wrote:This is only slightly related, but on my way home from work just now, I was stopped in traffic when all of a sudden this motorcycle appears out of nowhere and takes out my wing mirror! Smashed to smithereens. I didn't even get a chance to glimpse the number plate, seemed like he/she was doing about 100mph. Made me jump out of my skin, too. Grrr!

I would say that they deserve to go on a speed awareness course—but that would possibly be bad mannered.

It may have damaged your mirror, and frightened the stuffing out of you, but it could also very easily have been a fatality for the cyclist. Damn... there I go with those 'what if...' scenarios again... I would never make a mentalist!