talkmagic.co.uk

Hi,

I am thinking of doing the gold fish production on my next stage show, and this will be the first for me to use living animals.
So i am having some questions that i am not able to answer myself.

1. How many days in advance you buy the fishes ?
1. What do you use to carry the fishes to the venue ?
2. What is the maximum time for the small gold fishes to survive inside the gimmick [edited by mods]?
3. What do you normally do with the fish after production, keep them for the next show or giving it out to one audience ?

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks !

If your using LITTLE FISHY, then the supplied gimmic is fine enough for a small gold fish, just make sure the water relaxent isnt to strong and sends them into a coma.........

I do this close up, and give the fish to a spec if they really like it...so get some fish carry bags from a pet shop.........

I really dont mean to rant here or upset anyone so I'll try to keep this short but I really hate gold fish tricks. Please please please remember that fish are living animals and should be treated with respect. Keeping one in a little gimick really is very cruel on the animal, how would you like to be kept cooped up like that just to entertain somone and more than likley die at the end of it?

Got to agree with Lady of Mystery here....why oh why is this necessary? I realise it's just a fish and we're not talking about slaughtering kittens here but it's still a little cruel. All it takes for one person in your audience to question the cruelty of what you're doing, and the potential harm that may come to the fish, vocally and you may find an audience turning against you. There are plenty of people out there who are likely to be this way inclined and it could easily ruin a show. It doesn't take much to set a couple of animal lib crazies off, I guess you've got to question whether the risk of what these people could do to your reputation is worth it. As far as I was aware it was illegal to use live fish as prizes in carnivals these days and if this is true the same may apply to magic shows.

Lady of Mystery wrote:I really dont mean to rant here or upset anyone so I'll try to keep this short but I really hate gold fish tricks. Please please please remember that fish are living animals and should be treated with respect. Keeping one in a little gimick really is very cruel on the animal, how would you like to be kept cooped up like that just to entertain somone and more than likley die at the end of it?

keep it in batter instead...

I'll batter you if you're not careful

Now Now Tempura Tempura




......I'll get my coat

Ooooh, I love tempura. And that was funny!

Now...

Ox tongue is made from ox tongue. Chicken breast is made of chicken breast. Pork loin is loin of pork. etc.

So, what on earth are fish fingers?

More to the point, who doesn't smirk when someone says "Lamb shank" in a posh restaurant?

(hijack mode: OFF)

I think the cruelty aspect is important more these days than ever before—therefore using live animals can put a real damper on your potential bookings or reputation—apparently.

If it's stage type work you're doing, you'd be mightily surprised how much you can get away with by using a potato peeler and a carrot. And as a gross-out, you can of course eat it too.

I am not afraid to make waves. There are a precious few magicians I have come across that I can honestly say that I don't mind if they are using live animals. You are setting yourself up for disaster with the fish.

1st it is cruel to the fish
2nd chances are pretty good you are going to produce dead fish, or the fish will be dead soon after.
3rd What if you offer the fish to a youngster when in reality the parents don't want them to have a fish. This used to happen to Blackstone when he gave away the rabbits. My father was one of those kids that got up to help him and Blackstone gave him the rabbit. His mother said no. My father was heartbroken and Blackstone felt really bad.
4th How do you know the person you are giving the fish to is responsible enough to look after them?
5th You get to the venue already to go you check your prop one last time, the fish is dead!
6th Cruel to the fish.

Fact: Goldfish are the only animal that is more economical to replace than to purchase food.

if your doing a fish bowl production or a tubes of allah, fish tube production from your own tank then i don't see it as cruel but craming any animal in a small space is not good and pretty much not acceptable in thease days of cruelty to animals.

most childrens performers no longer use animals for the same reason they don't use dagger head chests and swords through knecks, ie being copied by thugets.

when i do use fish to do the carrot to fish production, carrot fish in bowl, cover bowl change to real fish, i have to get permision ahead of time from the family as its nowa rspca issue because of the change in the rules.

i do really appreciate all your comments, and at the end i totally agree to drop this routine out from my show. If every magician has the same thought, Kevin James would be pretty upset as the inventor of the gimmick.
Thank you very much.

This is almost as funny as a conversation I had not too long ago about cruelty to flies...Seems that some people figure that it's wrong to do the "Resurected Fly" effect because you might just hurt the fly. Whilst I would never condone such acts as tearing off a fly's wings, there is a point of absurdity that is reached when people begin to sing the praises of flies.

A gold fish is a carp. Anyone here familiar with the fish? Carp can survive some of the most adverse of conditions...They are a foraging fish that is hardy in consitution. With a modicum of care, gold fish productions are not going to kill the fish. Before everyone starts getting all excited about cruetly to fish, do some research...

From Wikipedia:

One could go on and on about the fascinating trivia associated with these denizens of the underwater realm. They are apparently a rather ancient sort of fish, with special survival adaptations which would seem to antedate the related features of other fishes. Their scales are large and oddly thick, and organically fused with the underlying skin in a way which will perplex the new angler first-time trying to scale one. They have two swim bladders instead of the normal one, and nobody knows why. Perhaps most interesting of all, they are able to survive out of water longer than any other fish, -- due in part to alterations in the design of the gills so that they don't automatically collapse and become wholly useless immediately upon exposure to air; but mainly because they have special exzymes/hormones which in a pinch will turn body fat (and even, in great extremes, muscle tissue) into oxygen-producing compounds which are then directed straight into the bloodstream. This capacity of course also makes them unusually good at sustaining prolonged periods in low-oxygenated waters.

One of the reasons that gold fish were given away at fairs is because of the hardiness of the fish. Wouldn't be very good if all those fish bowls were filled with dead fish, now would it? The problem that existed, however, is that quite often mom and dad didn't want to care for the fish, so they'd simply flush them down the toilet. Therein was the rub.

Furthermore, if you own any agressive, territorial fish of the larger variety (bass, piranha and others), then you find that you have to buy gold fish on a regular basis to feed to those fish. Gold fish are called "feeder fish" at pet shops. So, what is more cruel to those little gold fish: Having one that you use as a production creature that goes back into his bowl at the end of the day (and continues on his life) or ones that you buy in large quantities to feed to your other fish?

The problem that you're going to have is that little gold fish become big gold fish. So, you'll only be able to use your fish for a while before you'll need to get another little one. I would still think that a good production gold fish could be used for several months before you'd have to retire him and get another.

Personally, I would put you off of using a gold fish production for the simple reason that it is a pain right square in the ass when it comes to transportation and set up (and re-set). However, if you are doing kids shows, you might wish to ask the parents when you are setting the details if they'd like to have a fish as a gift for their child, produced magically. This then would allow you to do the fish production, ensure that it will have a good home and it pays for itself (in respect to your show's cost).

Okay, now everyone jump in and tell me what a vicious and torturous and nasty man I am.

Mike.

Michael Jay wrote:now everyone jump in and tell me what a vicious and torturous and nasty man I am

Not at all !

Not sure about the US of A but on this side of the pond we tend to avoid using animals in showbiz acts as it's perceived that they will either suffer or be ill-used. Circuses rarely use animals these days, just human entertainers - so I can see why there's a reluctance to use goldfish. Flies, on the other hand, are insects and can spread disease so aren't considered quite so cute and precious (pass that can of fly spray please). Dove acts are rarely seen and even the cute White Bunny Wabbit is conspicuously absent from magic acts - with the exception of a notable few performers such as Scott Penrose.

I shoot pandas in my act.