talkmagic.co.uk

i have... alas ellusionist lie... makes no change really so i shouldnt of got my hopes up.... i mean i never liked CIB's but i thought that was all gonna change... i was wrong..... :'(

Any true magicians knows that the EFFECT is a coin through a factory sealed bottle.

The only real factory sealed bottle would be something the creator did initially working in a factory.

This is a streamlined way to perfrom it in the most practical manner.

No gimmicks ..on the spot..and gets killer reactions.

Awesome price too.

AndyAce wrote:
I cannot believe what I saw either.

The whole coin is covered by his hand. The whole point of penetration is fully covered by his hand. I cannot see the penetration at all.

And to my horror, factory sealed is not really factory sealed. The spectaotr cannot look at the seal and break the seal. It's ironic in my opinion.

Hello Ace - I forgot you weren't banned from TM yet. So that just leaves TM and Theory11 right? Then you will be banned from every forum you participated in? You must be the only person in the history of online magic forums to post in so many threads that are all on ONE topic. Just hilarious. And you wonder why people don't take you seriosuly?

Anyway, you obviously don't own the effect and are basing your comments on disappointed posts yet you have missed the posts that say only good things about this effect. Additional routines can be built in - big coin, signed coin, one finger push, borrowed bottle etc etc. This effect is not limited.

The fact you base all your views off random quotes proves you are just clutching at straws. When will you stop trying to bring down ellusionist and the original Factory Sealed? Seriously when? What are you trying to prove.

Ace, there is only one coin into "facotry sealed" bottle that is virtually impromptu that has astonished some of the biggest names in this industry. Factory Sealed by Nick Verna is that effect.

If anyone is interested in another CIB, PM Ace, he has strong views on another CIB out there..oh yeah, that's right it's HIS CIB. Oh the irony.

Hello Ace - I forgot you weren't banned from TM yet. So that just leaves TM and Theory11 right? Then you will be banned from every forum you participated in? You must be the only person in the history of online magic forums to post in so many threads that are all on ONE topic. Just hilarious. And you wonder why people don't take you seriosuly?

Hi Chris!

I already explained the ban in Ellusionist and Magic Cafe in another thread. The fault lies with that 2 forums.

If you guys want to know what happened, you can visit the Sin Bin. It is in the sin bin because of Chris.

The mods was reluctant to close that thread until Chris came in.

And the mods already said NOT to mentioned about this and yet YOU came and post this in a thread that has nothing to do with the unfair treatment on the Ellusionist forums.

What are you trying to do here? Start another fire?

I know you have a personal vendetta against me. For reasosns you know best.

After reading the reviews of Factory Sealed, I know the reason why you hate me so much. Because my CTB really threatens your previous Factory Sealed.

Anyway, you obviously don't own the effect and are basing your comments on disappointed posts yet you have missed the posts that say only good things about this effect. Additional routines can be built in - big coin, signed coin, one finger push, borrowed bottle etc etc. This effect is not limited.

That is so misleading!

Signed Coin: Cannot be done.

Big Coin: Can be done, not impromptu. Nothing new.

One finger push: If the 1 finger push look so great, show it in the demo video. In the demo I can see NOTHING. The whole coin is covered. The whole point of penetration is covered.

Borrowed bottle: That cannot be done and was confirmed from the reviews. ALL the other CTB can use "borrowed bottles" with some additional work.

Factory Sealed is NOTHING NEW. It is inferior compared to the other CTBs.

The fact you base all your views off random quotes proves you are just clutching at straws. When will you stop trying to bring down ellusionist and the original Factory Sealed? Seriously when? What are you trying to prove.

Look at your post and Jim's post! You guys tried your best to hype up the CTBs, and tried to hide the obvious weaknesses of the E CTBs.

What are you trying to prove by posting personal attacks against me then?

What are you trying to prove when you just post all the good things about E's CTB?

Ace, there is only one coin into "facotry sealed" bottle that is virtually impromptu that has astonished some of the biggest names in this industry. Factory Sealed by Nick Verna is that effect.

See? Virtually impromtpu? That was so misleading! It was a lie!

Reviews already said that it is not impromptu!

Reviews already said that factory sealed is NOT factory sealed.

Reviews said that the penetration is FULLY COVERED and not visual at all.

If anyone is interested in another CIB, PM Ace, he has strong views on another CIB out there..oh yeah, that's right it's HIS CIB. Oh the irony.

If you check out T11, I compared Factory Sealed to 6 other CTBs.

6 other CTBs.

And the verdict is at least 3 to 4 of them are stronger than Factory Sealed.

Face it Chris. The hype is over.

With the majority of the reviews being negative, you should know the answer very well.

Factory Sealed is just another over hyped product from the Ellusionist.

Nothing new, nothing revolutionary.

Any true magicians knows that the EFFECT is a coin through a factory sealed bottle.

The only real factory sealed bottle would be something the creator did initially working in a factory.

This is a streamlined way to perfrom it in the most practical manner.

No gimmicks ..on the spot..and gets killer reactions.

Awesome price too.

Correction: It cannot be done on the spot. The reviews confirmed that.

Awesome price? Are you kidding me? The price is the most expensive compared to the other CTBs!

Other CTBs gets killer reactions too.

And some other CTBs uses real FACTORY SEALED bottles. That is the irony.

Other CTBs allow the spectators to break the seal.

But that CANNOT be done with factory sealed.

AndyAce wrote: If you check out T11, I compared Factory Sealed to 6 other CTBs.

6 other CTBs.

And the verdict is at least 3 to 4 of them are stronger than Factory Sealed.

Face it Chris. The hype is over.

With the majority of the reviews being negative, you should know the answer very well.

Factory Sealed is just another over hyped product from the Ellusionist.

Nothing new, nothing revolutionary.

Ace, appreciate you reply - expected nothing less from you.

"the verdict" ?! That's your opinion. Please dont patronise the users of talk magic.

Yes you compared loads of effects, many of which you dont even own!!! Basing your opinions off hear say proves how credible you are. That post of yours means nothing.

The hype is over? Maybe for your CIB, actually wait there was never any excitement or hype over your CIB was there.

Whether Factory Sealed is the best or not, I dont know and neither do you as you dont own all of the versions, so stop trying to preach to others when you clearly dont know all the facts.

How can you say I have a personal issue with you? I have always spoken highly of your ability to create an effect. The only problem I have with you is how you conduct yourself online. I have always been respectfull but I guess you cant see past a bit of critisicm.

Factory Sealed has been in print and on film for a couple of years, created many years ago. Those are facts.

And remember Nick Verna still has one more CIB up his sleeve....

Yes you compared loads of effects, many of which you dont even own!!! Basing your opinions off hear say proves how credible you are. That post of yours means nothing.

If I don't remember wrongly, YOU said that Nick's version is better than mine, when there is NO info or reviews on Factory Sealed, and you did not purchased my effect. So I guess all your opinions about my CTB means nothing too right?

I based my opinions on the reviews and product page. They are based on facts of the various CTBs.

The hype is over? Maybe for your CIB, actually wait there was never any excitement or hype over your CIB was there.

Oh please, I hope there will be no hype about my effect.

My effect don't need the hype. It needs people who know to appreciate it.

After the released of Factory Sealed, E mails and pms started flooding in my mail box. Not because of hype, but because they read what my CTB is really about.

How can you say I have a personal issue with you? I have always spoken highly of your ability to create an effect. The only problem I have with you is how you conduct yourself online. I have always been respectfull but I guess you cant see past a bit of critisicm.

Compared to the other E's fans that I encountered in other forums, you are indeed much more respectful than them.

But when you start bringing up my experience in the E's forum, you are trying to start another fire here, which is not necessary.

I hope you can focus on the CTBs.

Factory Sealed has been in print and on film for a couple of years, created many years ago. Those are facts.

Yes, those are facts. But that is not the reason why people should buy it.

Some people kept saying E's CTB is the original CTB. But the fact is Ellusionist did not originate the CTB plot. Factory Sealed, like all other CTBs out there is just another variation of the classic CTB plot.

Factory Sealed might be the earliest CTB out of the recent CTBs. But it is also weaker than the recent CTBs.

I don't think you should buy it just because it is "in print for a long time"

And remember Nick Verna still has one more CIB up his sleeve....

Which I remembered was said to be highly impractical. At least that is what the Ellusionist said.

Whether Factory Sealed is the best or not, I dont know and neither do you as you dont own all of the versions, so stop trying to preach to others when you clearly dont know all the facts.

Based on the reviews, I already knew what Factory Sealed can accomplish, and what it cannot accomplish. I merely quote from people who PURCHASED the effect. Hence it is reliable and credible.

Here are the facts of Factory Sealed

First of all, the penetration is not as visual as I thought. The whole coin was covered by the hand. The whole point of penetration is covered, and the audience cannot see how the coin penetrates.

Second, Factory Sealed is NOT factory sealed. The audience cannot look at the seal and break the seal of the bottle.

Thirdly, you cannot do it on the spot with a borrowed bottle.

You cannot do it with a big coin.

You cannot do it with a signed coin.

Nothing revolutionary here.

And for USD $29.95, I think it is over priced.

For your info, there are CTBs out there that is visual and can be done with big signed coins and factory sealed bottles.

Factory sealed is not as visual, cannot be done with big signed coins and the bottle is NOT factory sealed.

Which is better? The answer should be obvious.

Hey Ace,

AndyAce wrote:If I don't remember wrongly, YOU said that Nick's version is better than mine, when there is NO info or reviews on Factory Sealed, and you did not purchased my effect. So I guess all your opinions about my CTB means nothing too right?

Find a quote where I actually say 'Factory Sealed' is better than 'Sealed and Stuck'. I may say the credibility, production etc is better but I have never said the actual effect.

AndyAce wrote: After the released of Factory Sealed, E mails and pms started flooding in my mail box. Not because of hype, but because they read what my CTB is really about.

Good for you. Like I have said from the very start, I honestly wish you all the best with your effect. I just wish you would take a step back, let some real credible names do the talking for you. One post from a credible name would have more impact than the 30012324412 posts on every forum, video sharing website you have done. Just a thought for any future release you may bring out.

AndyAce wrote: Compared to the other E's fans that I encountered in other forums, you are indeed much more respectful than them.

Thank you. I may be upfront, blunt maybe harsh at times but never rude or disrespectful.

AndyAce wrote: Here are the facts of Factory Sealed

First of all, the penetration is not as visual as I thought. The whole coin was covered by the hand. The whole point of penetration is covered, and the audience cannot see how the coin penetrates.

Second, Factory Sealed is NOT factory sealed. The audience cannot look at the seal and break the seal of the bottle.

Thirdly, you cannot do it on the spot with a borrowed bottle.

You cannot do it with a big coin.

You cannot do it with a signed coin.

Nothing revolutionary here.

And for USD $29.95, I think it is over priced.

For your info, there are CTBs out there that is visual and can be done with big signed coins and factory sealed bottles.

Factory sealed is not as visual, cannot be done with big signed coins and the bottle is NOT factory sealed.

Which is better? The answer should be obvious.

FYI,

Here is quote highlighting what a bit of creative thinking can do with the foundations of ellusionist's effects;

from ellusionist forum wrote:

Just thought I'd chime in on a few things from my experimentation for the past eight or so hours.

When Nick said F:S was versatile, there was more truth in that statement than I could ever imagine.

If you watch the DVD and absorb the information, it'll put you in a creative state of mind.
_______________

Some have asked if the spectator can open the bottle. It is possible to figure out a way to do this.

Here's an early performance (I know, not a good idea).

About one hour ago, My brother-in-law came over to play some games. I decided to show him F:S, and I borrowed his quarter. I shook the bottle, then held it with two fingers, and did the slow penetration. It blew him away completely. I then told him it was factory sealed, and allowed him to open the bottle, which cracked exactly like a factory sealed bottle. He poured out the water, and couldn't get the coin out. To this date, I have never seen a reaction that unique.

_______________

There are so many ways to perform this, it's not even funny.

(bolds are mine to highlight key points in response to Ace's claims)

Ace, if you are as creative as I think you might be, if you were to actually buy Factory Sealed you would be able to accomplish things that you have said are not possible with a coin into bottle effect.

Finally..

AndyAce wrote: Which I remembered was said to be highly impractical. At least that is what the Ellusionist said.

I'm not going to go too much into this, but all I will say is that I am fortunate enough to have seen this version and it is simply the most stunning, open and impossible CIB I have ever seen. Impractical? Well we may all one day find out.

Find a quote where I actually say 'Factory Sealed' is better than 'Sealed and Stuck'. I may say the credibility, production etc is better but I have never said the actual effect.

Good. I believe you mean that you will choose 'Factory Sealed' over 'Sealed & Stuck', not because 'Factory Sealed is a better effect, but because Factory Sealed has more credibility and production etc.

To me i still think that the effect is more important.

Good for you. Like I have said from the very start, I honestly wish you all the best with your effect. I just wish you would take a step back, let some real credible names do the talking for you. One post from a credible name would have more impact than the 30012324412 posts on every forum, video sharing website you have done. Just a thought for any future release you may bring out.

The demo video and product page and reviews have already done all the talking for me.

30012324412 posts? Wow, I am amazed you took the time to actually count the exact number of posts I made. I think there are other better things to do.

Thank you. I may be upfront, blunt maybe harsh at times but never rude or disrespectful.

Very true Chris and I really respect you for that.

bolds are mine to highlight key points in response to Ace's claims)

Ace, if you are as creative as I think you might be, if you were to actually buy Factory Sealed you would be able to accomplish things that you have said are not possible with a coin into bottle effect.

First of all, I'm creative enough to come up with a visual big signed coin through factory sealed bottle effect. No other CTBs can accomplish that yet.

I have thought of all the impossible things and made them possible.

I did not say that "this is not possible for a CTB". I'm saying Factory Sealed cannot accomplish this and that.

About one hour ago, My brother-in-law came over to play some games. I decided to show him F:S, and I borrowed his quarter. I shook the bottle, then held it with two fingers, and did the slow penetration. It blew him away completely. I then told him it was factory sealed, and allowed him to open the bottle, which cracked exactly like a factory sealed bottle. He poured out the water, and couldn't get the coin out. To this date, I have never seen a reaction that unique.

This was NOT taught in the DVD.

You have to add your own knowledge of CTBs to make it possible.

If you own Abyss 1, you can also built on it so that it become a coin through factory sealed bottle.

It is very convenient to say: "if you built on the groundwork of Factory Sealed, you can come up with this and that"

Moreover after all the "self improvements" you made to FS, what you get is a big coin through factory sealed bottle (which is not impromptu and you have to use your own bottle)

Plus the coin still cannot be signed. And the penetration still needs a cover and still happend at the bottom of the bottle.

There are CTBs which can be done with big signed coins, factory sealed bottles, and a open visual penetration from the middle of the bottle.

Even the "self improved" Factory Sealed cannot beat that.

mods can we have a place for these 2 to argue.... not here... im with chris anyway soz andy....

joecarr14 wrote:mods can we have a place for these 2 to argue.... not here... im with chris anyway soz andy....

Don't worry joe, there's only so long before the glucose-rush of their Sunny Delight wears off.

Unfortunately, most kids are just banging on about coin to bottle these days. Anyone with any brains just ignores the hype.

should'nt you to be out playing curby in the street or something.. or annoying the fat bloke sunbathing in his front garden..??

the above exchange of words is a classic example of the mis-spent youth that is frequent among kids today.

Arguing.. online.. on a sunday afternoon.. I never thought I would see the day..

And... furthermore, because this has descended into childish rubbish (as we all predicted it would) I am locking the thread. Complaints, on a postcard to: N. Otbothard