talkmagic.co.uk

I was looking at videos on youtube and came across a "self proclaimed psychic" called Sylvia Browne who on one video told a woman her boyfriend had drowned when he was infact a fire fighter and had died on 9/11. Some of her other videos were funny as well because she seemed to get everything wrong and she didn't even care, I wonder why when she's making $700 for a 30 minute reading

Theres a channel on sky where people call in (on a 0900 number no less) and they tell them their worries and the so called psychics tell them what they want to hear and other pretty general stuff, the women on there aren't anymore talented than the women on babecast who take their clothes off and talk sexy for the men callers (both channels probably use the same women lol)

I think these people are parasites and shouldn't be exploiting vulnerable and needy people but I guess just like those interactive quiz shows theres plenty of fools out there for them to scam. I do however read my horoscope in the paper but I don't believe it, they said I would come into money and fall in love with someone from my past last month but I didn't

yes I'm a skeptic, I don't believe things easily (Yvette did a Ouija board once on most haunted and she took her hands off the glass which she shouldn't have) I'm not saying I don't believe in mentalism cause I know theres a chapter in Corinda dedicated to medium type stunts but you would think if these people were really psychic they'd be solving crimes before they happened and contacting murder victims to bring their killers to justice instead of appearing on tv

I can see a foggy image of one large Craig Browning post coming along...

Personally, I abhor Sylvia Brown. She emotionally abuses people and financially manipulates them. Theres an article somewhere written by a lady who paid Sylvia the 700 bucks for the reading. Sylvia was dead wrong about everything (pun intended, you'll understand soon). The predictions about the woman's life never came to be, and Sylvia's closing statements about the writer living a long, happy life was proven false as well- she died soon after writing it. (Soon as in a few years, not weeks or anything...)

Sylvia Brown is scum. I don't thing Craig Browning can honestly (and rightly) defend her actions and attitude.

Couldnt agree more. The only reason people like her do what they do is not to comfort people like they like to claim, but because grieving people are so desperate to talk to their loved ones again that they are willing to pay good money to believe they are.

(On a tangent, but a related point. I managed to see Jim Callahans truely awful and transparent phononemom perfermance the other day. I went to that other rather unfriendly forum to see what they were saying as I know he posts there. I was amazed to see the vast majority really angry because 'Jim does what he does for real'...'like they do?' I can understand the act for layman...but on a mentalism area in a magic forum? Apparently if you think that its not real you are a bigot. Bizarre.

Apparently though, Jim has challenged to tell Criss Angel what is in his envelopes on the final programme. Just as long as the $1000,000 is there with him in the studio. Should beinteresting to see how that one plays out. And of course, thpse fellow forum members are truely convinced that 'Raymond' the illiterate writer know exactly what the envelopes contain???)

I work a lot with "genuine" mediums and clairvoyants. I think it's important not to tar all mediums and clairvoyants with the same brush. While you may at the tip of the pyramid have a few mercenary types who are just in it for the money, beneath them you have hundreds of good folk who really do believe they have a gift and want to use it to help people.

Most working mediums/clairvoyants will be part of a spiritual church, and although it's easy to imagine that "medium land" is populated with con artists and cowboys, it is in fact quite tightly looked after by the "churches". It would be nigh on impossible for anyone to make a living from being a medium if they weren't part of a spiritual church network. And new mediums who want to work on the spiritual church network are very tightly monitored and "trained".

So for example if I thought "Oooh, I'm gonna get rich by conning people into believing I can talk to their dearly departed", where would I get the work? An ad in yellow pages? Might bring in a few bookings, but only a few. A nice website? Again a few, but certainly not enough to make a living, let alone get rich. No, if you want to make a living, you have to go through the churches.

The mediums I know are good honest folk. I know it's very easy to mock that belief and call all mediums con men (or con women 90% of the time) - but they're not. You may believe they're deluded, but that's another thing entirely. In their heart they believe they are doing good. They don't do it to get rich.

Yes they get paid. And why not? Docotrs get paid. Clowns get paid. Dog walkers get paid. Being a medium or clairvoyant doesn't mean you have to give your services away for free - although a lot do donate their time or waive their fee in certain circumstances.

This is an issue that has been debated long and hard in this forum and nothing that is said here will change anyone's mind. All I wanted to point out is that 90% (or whatever) of mediums and psychics are good people. You will of course have your own views and opinions on how a medium's "gift" actually works, but just don't fall into the trap of believing them to be knowing con artists. As someone with experience I know otherwise.

I think you've made an interesting point that many mediums are well meaning (I have no experience to know one way or another). What I firmly believe however is that these people are not 'harmless' and their 'skills' should be subject to scientific testing if they insist on claiming that their readings are accurate and that they can communicate with the dead. I have the same view about 'alternative' healing therapies. It is very easy to say live and let live and people should be able to believe whatever they want to believe. I personally don't subscribe to this view if the belief is demonstrably wrong. Just my opinion and I understand that this is a subject that will polarise people. Getting back on track, the Guardian ran an article on Sylvia a few weeks ago and highlighted a number of occasions where (according to the paper) she had got readings completely wrong - people being told family were dead when they were alive for example.

Did anyone see that 'psychic' on peter andre and jordans chat show (the missus was watching I promise!). She was princess dianas psychic, and claimed to have predicted her death!. I surely wasnt the only one wondering why she didnt tell diana? She also told Jordan about things that could easily been googled, and that she was going to buy a horse (not a big secret that Jordan rides...horses that is). THen after thee bold claims, she cant even predict who is going to win a competition between peter and jordan on the show. A simple 1 in 3 shot. Yet no one questioned it.
I think that deep down, most of these psychic know they arent psychic. I feel that if its not for money, then there are other psychological needs such as self worth attached to being a medium. Yet they all try to convinve each other that they are the 'real deal'. If they are so sure of their ability, would they be willing to put their money or their life on the line to prove their skills (e.g. what box is your life savings in). If not, then dont play with other peoples money and lives.

All I say is that to anyone who thinks they can geniunely do anything paranormal is to prove it.
Obviously the answer they usuall give is something to the effect of "I know it works so why do I have to prove it?"
1) So you can be taken seriously
2) To prove something of this magnitude would have a massive effect of our world as we know it. Life after death, the ability for minds to send a recieve signals.

Prove it, prove it, prove it and under independent test conditions.

I personally find the whole industry a vile one as it genreally preys on bereaved people. Anyway how come all these spirits come back to impart meaningless information such as 'you've just decorated your house' or ' you have some photos that need putting away'.

I agree that most people who claim to have these gifts geniunely believe so and are doing it for reasons og good intent. This doesn't however change anything.
There are many people who do terrible and immoral things whilst believing its for the greater good. I could give an extreme example here but will refrain (I'm sure you can think of many yourself).
I, for one, see it as a duty of all rational people to question the claims of anyone to have powers or to have invented some new cure etc. And if those claims time and again work when examined independently of an inviduals wish for it to work then it becomes accepted. now whats wrong with that?

Oooh just prove it!

i find the whole concept fascinating..i've used this argument before, but that's no reason to say it again...plus it saves on thinking time..

imagine if you will, you were a scientist...in say the 1600s, and say that you believed in something called "atoms". Now, you couldnt prove it scientifically, and yet, you still fervently did...

all your scientific friends would scoff, outcast you, poke your little belly with a bunsen burner..all kinds of nerd-derision...however, that would still not change your mind on it..for you, atoms exist that thats that!

you would only ever to appear to be correct until it was scientifically proven by your future collegues...you were wrong for nearly 400 years...

yet..you were eventually right...whose laughing now eh? eh? eh?

don't get me wrong, i hate those fakir fakers just as much as some of you do, preying on people's grief, and doing it for money too..awful, awful creatures who deserve at very least a sharp kick in the spheres and told not to do it again...

however, just cos you cant really, scientifically prove something, just means exactly that, you can't prove it scientifically...i would imagine the same goes for intuition...especially in animals...

you could guess at it, but, for an example the tsunami, all the animals fleed the area before it hit..for some unexplainable reason...they sensed it somehow...

though, as an occasionally clever atheist, i am still very interested in what we as modern primatives can do..or will be able to do if we allow ourselves...

ultimately, i think the distorted "Hollywood" version/perception of what a psychic is should be dropped, and other meanings should be explored...

i too dont understand why if someone does talk to spirits, they actually describe to us what its like there...and which God won!

What do you call a midget psychic on the run? A small medium at large.

Anyhow its very interesting all this calling up uncle Fred on the old ouija board and asking him did he know the cat swallowed his dentures.

I don’t belive they are real as my mate Greedo says why cant they just prove it? All though Greedo has seen my powers..


My mum has got a friend who visit’s a medium every so often and I was talking to my mums friend about my coupe-de-gras my now famous living and dead test. And I was asked how to do. Of course one refused then I got this answer “I will just ask Sandra” wait a second I thought and said “isn’t Sandra a real medium?” and I got the best answer in the world “yes of course she is but when she is not getting anything she uses tricks”

And she charges £30 the half hour that’s a pound a minute to do mentalism!

Also though I feel that a lot of them are deluded bless ‘em and they are cold reading but have no idea how they are doing it. Remember when Mrs Smith goes down to see madam what’s her name on the beach at Great Yarmouth they remember this hits. And none of the fishing or misses.

Also a certain class of people will seek a medium you will find it’s a very lower middle class to working class pursuit.

Of course I read tarot cards and I am not half bad at it.

The thing is that in measuring the claims of these people is a lot less difficult than atoms or other physical phenomena.
The basis of psychic claims is that the person or persons claim to be able to gather information about a subject through using the mind alone.

There is no need to measure or view something that physically exists but is too small or remote but mearly to make record of the information each psychic imparts and then comparing that with the statistics of guesswork.

For example someone who claimed to be able to read minds. You could give several volunteers each a seperate word to think of and place each behind a partion (so the psychic couldnt actually see the people). If the psychic then entered this room and in turn read each volunteer and say the word. This could then be repeated hundreds of times to see if there is any statistical difference between guesswork and psychic method.
the same sort of thing can be applied to mediumship too.

Well, someone invoked my name...

When it comes to dear old Sylvia, I find her to be the most repulsive and uncouth creature in this business and a total sham. But, she exemplifies an exception and not the rule. As has already been stated, far too may "self-proclaimed skeptics" use a very broad all invasive brush when it comes to painting anyone or anything that uses the term or association of being "Psychic" But there is likewise an ignorance at hand here when it comes to the issue of Mentalism and how it was intended to be presented that many in our current era refuse to accept, preferring to devalue the craft as being nothing but magic tricks vs. striving for the belief factor that makes it effective.

Do Note that even Derren Brown and Banachek shoot for the belief factor while telling you something other. They just use more analytical terms vs. association with things esoteric. Their "lie" as it were, envelopes things like NLP, Body Language, Hypnosis, etc. A prime example of this is a new piece just released by my buddy Joshua Quinn as DUPLICITY... it's a great piece of business but as he says, it incorporates the single greatest tool of mentalism -- being able to lie you butt off!

Now I have no love for Callahan, in fact his spots on PHENOMENON allowed me to cultivate a bit of appreciation for the guy I'd not had before. At that, I agree that he's the worse actor on the planet BUT, Jim holds to the Old School formulas that made mentalism work and the contention held by all the know-it-alls in the magic world over him being in the wrong, merely reveals how much they don't know about what mentalism is and how it works when you aren't looking at it as being "just a trick"

I can assure you my Canadian buddy Scott McClellan could prove to you a thing or two when it comes to selling a show as being real vs. fake (http://www.theparanormalshow.net/).

Now I've said it many times, let's bust the crooks and charlatans but we must stop lumping it all into the same pile and taking on the attitude that "it's all fake" (and please don't bring up that stupid Randi challenge again). Assumption works both ways and sometimes it's the cynic that is blinded by their assumptions vs. the patron.

Of course...all the magical arts require a lie/deception of some sort. That isn't disputed. But its not just black and white like that. Stating that you are reading body language etc does not prey on the vulnerable, and can not be compared to claiming to a greieving mother/wife that you are talking to a dead husband or child.

i've actually grown to hate the fake body language explanations as much as the fake psychic one...

that's the trouble, 'cos derren's so charming and popular - just about every b.ugger uses it...

I'm working on a decent premise now...one thats comfy for me...

that's not a dig at anyone by the way, just a personal thing

Regarding the psychic that appeared on the Jordan and Peter Andre chat show, I too am quite surprised at how many psychics claim to have had Princess Di on their books.. there seems to be quite a number! Didn't any of them want to warn her that she should wear a seatbelt "in future months"? (At the risk of digressing from the subject, I am quite convinced that had Diana worn a seatbelt on that tragic night, then society would have saved itself a lot of needless conspiracy theories)

Markdini brought up an interesting point regarding the medium "using tricks when she can't get anything through". I have seen many undoubtably profficient singers mime on studio performances like Top of the Pops in the past. But that has not left me in any doubt that they can actually sing, or that genuine singing does actually exist!

There have been plenty of accounts of plumbers and builders that rip you off when you are vulnerable and your house is flooding with a leak.. but does that mean that every plumber you are going to meet is a cowboy?

The Phenomenon mediumship performance was an interesting one and I am quite pleased that it happened.. firstly, it was quite rivetting and secondly, the series did need a controversial act such as this to make the whole "Phenomenon" phenomenon a rounded treatise on the mentalism subject... Wouldn't it have been a slightly duller programme WITHOUT this particular routine and the controversy that blew up around it?

I think the sceptics are as much "shut-eyes" as the psychics that they accuse.. I went to an evening of "genuine" mediumship a few years ago expecting to witness nothing special, until he picked on me sitting in the audience.. and told me that he got the name Peter, that my Dad should look after himself and that I can do what he (the medium) can do. Creepy stuff when one considers that my Dad, whose name was Peter, was dying in hospital from a stroke at the time and was not co-operating with anyone regarding his habilitation.

I don't personally think this is as clear cut as "prove it if it's real". "Prove that there is life after death". I'm groping at the edge of something here but we can't scientifically "prove that love exists" either, but we all believe in it (don't we?).

Something that interests me greatly these days are the "enlightened meditators" of this world, people like Eckhart Tolle and the like? They always seem to say stuff like "the soul is eternal", and that "time is an illusion" and they go on about the "perfection of the cosmos" etc. Is this level of existence also a scam? I can't sit still long enough to work it out!

I would also make a distinction between claiming to be able to read minds in the traditional sense and the more vulgar talking to departed loved ones.