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I'm sorry I didn't really think about how anyone else's feelings that night I'd like a mod to please just delete this since it's a terrible topic if that's possible.

Having not seen the show myself means I am not able to comment with certainty....BUT

Because you knew or thought you knew how the effects were done doesn't mean others did - that is simply your opinion that they did - and knowing doesn't give you the right to speak up and ruin if for those that did not know or did enjoy themselves.

The respnose of the crowd - you said something about stoic - is tough to gauge as I have had audiences that blow off the roof for the same effect another group doesn't respond heavily to....so stoic in my mind doesn't say much....and depending on the style of show stoic may be suitable for the response....I expect different levels of enthusiasm in applause at a night club, an elementary school, a retirement home, a family restaurant, a trendy restaurnat, and/or a classy-up-scale restaurant....and depending on the overall mix of people in the audience.

I do not know of any magician - regardless of style of show or method - that would accept the challenge to "do it again" unless the "do it again" was a response that was a solicited response by the magician and it is part of his routine....so I think the challenge to do it again in that enviornement is wrong. I do expect some challenges when roaming in a bar/pub and am prepared to accept some challenges but I am still in control of how the routine goes not the spectator.

His response does seem a little "unprofessional" but not beeing there makes it tough for me to judge....his response does seem weird but his actions themselfes do not - for the reason mentioned above - but combined he may have been caught off gaurd....or simply suprised by your comment or having an "off-night" and YES they do happen.

I would be upset if I was with someone in that venue that "called out the performer on his methods" during the performance and infont of everyone else...I would feel that the person doing the calling was trying to upstage or steal the thunder from the performer by trying to profess his knowledge.....I do tons of shows and know full well that odds are someone in the audience knows how the effect is done, does it themselves, or on an off night may have seen a flash or something they should not have... but in a stage setting I would not aniticate a "cat call" from the group....upclose maybe but in a large setting like this, NO

Hello JohnnyCab.

I'm sure you'll get a few responses on this one.

Here's my starter for ten:

fraudulent tricks

I am not going to say a word.... :/

He might have used stooges. From what you write it is not clear how much
you know about mentalism. Maybe, you are right, and he certainly failed in demonstrating in a clear and undisputed way that the spectators were selected randomly. I ALWAYS when possible makes this very clear and use the standard ploy of people randomly throwing a soft toy rabbit around in the room to decide select the spectators. Sometime, its not possible to select the spectators randomly, but not because you need stooges.

It is possible, that every thing was more fair than you describe. Where did you get this information about the 4-5 other stooges you were talking about? Repeating an effect in magic - let mentalism alone - is usually not an option.

In general I am not surprised if he got somewhat confused and your comments affected his performance, but this could also have happened if you were wrong. Laypeople often think that mentalist usually uses stooges. I would never use a stooge (except maybe to pull the leg of another magician ). I understand your response and whether his used stooges or not, clearly something went wrong in his show. If I was performing you would be treated as a difficult spectator, and though I do not like such spectators (they tend to ruin the experience for other spectators), I might (but this depend on the situation) have involved you in the next effect to clear the air.

I would be suprised if all the effect were achieved with a stooge. Not being able to explain an effect doesnt mean that is the only way. Many people accuse Derren Brown of te same thing because his effects (to them) have no other explanation.
Were there other people willing to volunteer? perhaps these were the only ones willing. Or perhap the choice of volunteer didnt seem free enough and so he was at fault.
However...if I was in the audiance, I would have found your actions rude and cringeworthy. There is a certain etiquette when watching stage shows (magic or not). And no one likes a smart *rse! Especially one who thinks they know more than they probably do.

Like others, without seeing the act it's tough to say much but I will second what was said above when it comes to your personal assumptions about things... having just a little bit a knowledge on a topic is a dangerous thing and had this individuals been more learned in his craft I think his response to your challenge would have placed some serious mud upon your own face... I know that when I have a smartalek of this sort I bear my teeth and go in for the kill... and have slain many a magician that tried to prove me a "fake" using the same exact methods they were demonstrating (exposing) as to how I accomplish things.

It is as they say, one should not interfere with the doings of Wizards & Dragons...

my bad i don't know what i was thinking

Hmm...

Jonny, out of interest are there any mentalists you've seen that have impressed you? I assume you've heard of the same magis/mentalists that most people have (the ones that have made it to tv basically), when you watch them do you find them interesting and entertaining or annoying and puzzlesome?

The reason I'm asking is that the general impression you project is of a cynical person who probably doesn't like to be 'tricked'. Entertained certainly, but not deceived in the context of what was presented at the show you went to. This guy certainly seems to be a modern mentalist (everyone else: can we agree with that for now for the purposes of this thread?) although his marketing could be construed as a bit awry, selling clothes with your logo on isn't an obvious choice for the discerning mind reader. You say you went to the show with low expectations so I imagine you're the sort of spectator who instantly feels on the back foot when you're presented with a magic trick.

Don't worry, you're not alone and it's the performer's job to get you on their side and enjoying the show. In this case the guy didn't manage to, so it was his fault. However, as others have pointed out above it's highly unlikely that any stooges were used, simply because there's no need for him to have done so to have achieved the effects you mentioned. The use of the same volunteers could have been for several reasons and as Soren said he should have made it clear why he did this, after all the main aim of any well constructed routine is to remove all possible logical pathways to the method, leaving a miracle. In mentalism particularly the use of confederates is a logical assumption to make so ruling them out is an important part of any effect where they could be brought into play, again he failed to do this.

It would appear that you either saw the chap on an 'off night' or he's not that good. I must admit that the clips you posted gave me the impression he was technically proficient but somehow a bit annoying, not sure quite why. Thing is, you couldn't explain what he did without resorting to the assumption that his volunteers were "obvious" stooges, so maybe he did do his job right

EDIT: I've just re-read your last post and have something to say regarding the selection of the volunteers. It's not at all out of the ordinary for spectators to be reluctant to be selected and some well regarded magicians even say that you should always avoid anyone who's clearly gagging to be picked. On the same note, a magician called Darwin Ortiz says in his seminal treatise on performance Strong Magic that you should decided yourself which members of the audience you wish to use and virtually drag them onto the stage in the most polite way possible. Again in a mentalism performance there are slightly different aspects to take into account but this could go some way to explaining why he acted as he did.

Johnnycab - are you an entertainer ?

Just wondering. No matter what I thought of a performer in a live show, I would never 'heckle' him. Simply bad manners.

I might challenge him afterwards, on a one to one - never 'during'.

Dave

johnny cab.
its one thing to question a performer off mike or close to the stage to voice your displeasure at his act, but its a completely diferent thing to complain from the back in public, its rude, disrespectful and speaks more of yourself, especialy as your friend was involved.

as a fellow performer i can say with a fair degree of acuracy that when performing mentalist effects it is quite common to use the same audience member that you make a conection too more than once and in a small venue with limited choice the same group of people, after all we are talking about the meeting of minds here.
however its performed and from the limited, biased descriptions you have given i can think of at least 7 diferent ways i could get the needed infomation either pre show or in real time, without using stooges which is an accepted practise in magic, you don't think the prety and suprisingly fit audience member choosen for an illusion is there by accident do you.
what were talking about is mentalism, the use of ones mind to comunicate and or influence a like minded individual, yes its a trick, but it should apear that your infuencing there mind, channeling there essence, imposing your will etc, ect.

just the same way a hypnotist uses susceptable subjects more than once, too the audience it just adds to his powers of persuation and control.

picuture this for a moment if there was one audience member who you could actualy read there mind, would you not use them for your entire show, yes you would.

audiences can be a fickle bread and like any pack animal behave diferently to a situation, you get the hippos that take an age to shift but once they go theres no stopping them.
then theres the hyenas who will laugh at anything just to keep in with the pack.
and my personal favourates the wolves who will eye you up all evening giving polite grunts and intuative nods and if your lucky a prefuctury hand lick at the end, for thay are the type of animal that goes back and tells all the other animals to come see the wonderous thing in the forest or steeer clear of the wounded animal.