talkmagic.co.uk

Brickmaster wrote:



And second, Dear Markdini, your post is REALLY insulting. For your information, I have spent endless nights trying to perfect the techniques and presentation of many effects including my own (which are not so great but still they are MY own effects). I will not say more on this. I will just assume that you had a fight with your girlfriend or lost your job before you posted.

Yay. Stand up and take it like the beard would. Its not insulting in the least I was stating my point of view. You should have read what I ve said about Tomo's book when I first got if you think that was insulting.

Secondly I am glad you came round to my way of thinking.

Nice post Farlsborough

thank you very much for your thoughts on the subject.

The sponge to spectators hand was an effect I will never forget. I can still remember how I felt (almost).

When I experienced it, deep inside me I didn't want to know the secret. But I really wanted to perform it. I really wanted to do it. So in the end the magician taught me how to make a coin vanish. I was so happy that I knew the secret but I immediately realized that it would take a hell lot of practice to make the palming look natural...

Anyway, after all these years, I feel kind o' sad that I cannot fully experience the magic. So I end up in front of the mirror performing to myself. I want to be deceived so I forget about the secret. And then I let my imagination loose and I try to guess how it's done, not really trying. It's the guessing and the mystery that matters most.

So maybe the secret is important but a spectator can always chose if he wants to see it or not even if he knows the secret just like the first girl at the bar.

Brickmaster wrote:What really annoys me is that magic has become commercial and there is a whole fuss about it

No argument there. What really annoys me is that it's become over commercial, lots of frantic hype about very basic stuff, possibly from RRTCM or Bobo repackaged and presented as though it's vital to the survival of the human race - and often at extortionate prices. Every effect seems to need to 'Fry' or 'Kill' the specs or at least 'blow them away'. With all due apologies to our advertisers, IMHO truly good magic comes mostly from the heart not just from the wallet.

I haven't really got time to read through everything that's been written but I have had a quick skim through.

Yes Brickmaster, you are right that there is so much more to magic than the performace. I trick with no presentation is just that, a trick, a puzzle. But when presented well it can become truely magical.

The secret really isn't that important, who cares if the who world and his dog knows how to do a cross cut force? I've had a very good magician trick me with that one before now. If you're able to add your own twist to an effect and present it well, then you're going to leave many people wondering, even if they knew the basic mechanics. The other day I did a two in the hand, one in the pocket routine to Dave using coins. Now he was left scratching his head, even though I've taught him the exact ame technique using spongeballs (and he's actually quite good at it). But because it wasn't sponges he never linked the techniques. And most youtube magicians will be like that, just knowing the mechanics shouldn't be enough for them to see what you're doing.

I'll even go so far as to say that exposure might help get some kids into magic in the first place. Take someone with just a passing interest, not enough of an interest to buy magic but enough that they'll try out a few of the things they find on youtube. That person's interest grows, they find the exposure sites aren't that good afterall and before you know it, they've ordered Mark Wilson and Royal Road and are at the top of that slippery slope that is CUPS.

But of course there's the negatives, these sites are taking the money away from the creators (although to be fair these 'creators' are often just pinching the ideas from some other, long dead magician, not always of course but all too often).

I don't really think that exposure does any real damage to magic on the whole but that doesn't mean that it's right either. If someone's going to get to a decent level in magic, they have to, at some point start studying books and putting in the work.

Look at the Youtubers, they're all 14 year old kids, sat in front of a web cam performing for each other. So what if they know the odd trick, I can perform it better than then and with my own slant. And who cares anyway, when am I likely to meet them when I perform? And even if I did, why should I feel threatened by them?

I think magic should be cloaked in secrecy. I am all for promoting magic, teaching whenever I can. But the difference is I'm teaching, I'm showing people who have a genuine interest. I'm not exposing just because I can or because somebody wants to know. The performances we are talking about on youtube and the masked magician hurt magic because of how it portrays magic. It makes magic look hokey and magicians look like geeks who don't have a life. Magic should have that Mystique about it otherwise you loose the whole flavour. When I perform my bizzare magic. People's interests are piqued when I bring out the shrouds and viles and brass pieces with strange ruins engraved on them. If they knew it was just a ratty old handkerchief and box I took outside and hit with a chain a few times much of the magic experience would be gone. I once saw a magician perform coins across. He took off his shoes, took out a straw mat, sat cross legged on the mat, removed two small wicker baskets, about the size of okito boxes and did an amazing coins across. His entire theme being how ancient magic is how special magicians are, how the secrets are passed down from one magician to another. He was taking his audience on a journey where few are permitted to travel, and it was mystifying. Yes he was amazing due to the presentation. But if he exposed the secret the entire experience would have been..well non magical. The fact is we are magicians. Otherwise go and be a story teller, play the piano, be a juggler where the secret is not so inherent in the presentation. Nothing wrong with any of these other art forms, I love them all and I love combining them for a well rounded show. In the end don't loose sight that magic is about magic. The problem of exposure is that you are cheating your audience out of a wonderful experience.

Penn and Teller do a great routine where Penn stands there and tells you how the effect is done while Teller performs. Is it entertaining? Yes. Is it magic? not really, incredibly impressive, but in a way a juggler is impressive.

My problem is more with bad performances. When a magician does really bad it makes magicians look bad. I don't know why, and its not true in every case. But it is that much harder to convince somebody to watch a magic effect after they have had a bad experience with a magician, then it is to get them to listen to a song after they have heard a really bad song.

Sorry for the long post. The truth is like many here I love magic, I even really like some magicians Magic has opened doors for me that never would have been opened have introduced me to some wonderful people allowed me to travel and enjoy the lifestyle I am living. Do I take magic seriously, of course I'm a magician how else should I take it? Do I take myself too seriously? Nope I'm just a cog in the wheel of life and I'm enjoying the ride.

I'll even go so far as to say that exposure might help get some kids into magic in the first place. Take someone with just a passing interest, not enough of an interest to buy magic but enough that they'll try out a few of the things they find on youtube. That person's interest grows, they find the exposure sites aren't that good afterall and before you know it, they've ordered Mark Wilson and Royal Road and are at the top of that slippery slope that is CUPS.

My magic life story

With the difference that I didn't learn from youtube and that I had a more than passing interest.