talkmagic.co.uk

i know theres hundreds if not thousands of books and dvd's on mentalism , i was reading a post here somewhere regarding an item known as ufo2, costs a grand or more ,isnt that just completely cheating ? i mean correct me if im wrong but firstly ,if secrets are so closely guarded then why is this mentioned on the forum ? as soon as i read the post i lost like 90% of my respect for all mentalists as you never know whos using a radio gimmick or digital dice or whatever electronic marvels and whos not , and whats the point of all that evolution of mentalism theory if somebdy can just get an assistant and wear something that sends the details to them imho thats not real mentalism its just lame .
and people say that the magicians with the most ££ to spend on gimmicks arent gonna be the most succesful ....i think they are .. i mean one only has to look at copperfield etc ....in magic ...money seems to be power ...or is it ?
some of my favourite illusions are based on the simplest of concepts yet are very effective .... as long as people still practice what id call "real" magic maybe theres hope

the great suprendo wrote:and people say that the magicians with the most ££ to spend on gimmicks arent gonna be the most succesful ....I think they are .. I mean one only has to look at copperfield etc ....in magic ...money seems to be power ...or is it ?
maybe theres hope

I am sure that a lot more experienced and eloquent forum members than me will answer this for you.

I am going to start by asking you a question. Do you really believe that the Copperfields of this world are just succesful because they can afford expensive props? What about personality and performance? Does that count for nothing?

I don't know much about the prop you are talking about but I could if I wanted probably afford to buy it.

If just by buying this I would become an overnight success I would justify the price and get it. But I would be no more of a magician or mentalist with this item than I am today. It is not the having or not having of expensive props that makes a magician, it is everything else. His / her personality, performance, ability to communicate, talent and a dozen other attributes that go together to turn a magic trick from an expensive piece of gimmickry in to a performance people want to watch

yeh i agree and understand , it just seems unfair that many mentalists have spent years learning their art and could basically be replicated by somebody with little or no experience .
having said that it depends on how you look at it , one of the best mentalist tools is the mini pencil , i daresay with the secret pencil you could emulate tricks that soembody else had paid thousands of pounds to achieve with expensive gimmicks ...so it kinda works both ways i guess

I just can't wait for Craig and Tomo's replies to this....

Lord Freddie wrote:I just can't wait for Craig and Tomo's replies to this....

I almost didn't bother to reply because i knew they would do a so much better job but I could'nt resist

As has been said before, there's so much more to magic than the trick, props, gimmick or whatever. 90% of the effect comes down to the presentation and performance.

Think of this, what's more entertaining a average trick performed with energy and humour or an expensive performed by a magician shuffling his feet and mumbling his way through.

Why is Derren Brown so popular, many of his tricks are very simple in method but it's his presentation that makes them what they are.

yeh i agree presentation can make a bad trick good or a good trick bad , plenty of people are good entertainers and dont neccesarily have to do magic , id say in anything on stage a patter must be a pre requisite , a long time ago in a galaxy far far away you needed to actually have patter and learn to do mentalism from books or wotever ...... bruce forsyth is a good entertainer and has patter , rigged with one of these gimmicks he could rule the world as a mind reader lol .
surely you must lend some credence to my point of view , just knowing mentalists use these devices has probably spoilt my apprreciation for all time about any elaborate mental affect im likely to see anybody perform ..
il just think to myself ufo2 and ignore the rest of the act

the great suprendo wrote:it just seems unfair that many mentalists have spent years learning their art and could basically be replicated by somebody with little or no experience

Yes until that somebody is asked to do a gig at a nudist's convention.

In his magic trilogy, Fitzkee points out that almost all magic "secrets" can be reasoned out by a person of average intelligence if he chooses to.

That SHOULD indicate that the important part of magic is NOT the secrets. Unfortunately, the public and magicians have been brainwashed into believing that the secrets are a "big deal".

But it's the personality of the performer that makes a performance memorable in the minds of the audience.

It doesn't matter whether a trick or books sells for ten cents or ten thousand dollars; the secrets -- if they can be called that -- aren't the magic.

If I may use that wonderful phrase recently posted by Peter Marucci: Those who believe magic is in the props should take a piano apart and look for the music.

Lady of Mystery wrote:As has been said before, there's so much more to magic than the trick, props, gimmick or whatever. 90% of the effect comes down to the presentation and performance.

Think of this, what's more entertaining a average trick performed with energy and humour or an expensive performed by a magician shuffling his feet and mumbling his way through.

Why is Derren Brown so popular, many of his tricks are very simple in method but it's his presentation that makes them what they are.

Yup. Just like a magician, the greatest asset a mentalist has is not the effects he knows, or the help he has in performing them, but how he presents both himself and his act. I don't think our light-fingered friend realises that most mentalists spend just a few bob on their props in places like WH Smiths and the like. Then again, he should probably take a look at a master of magic like Geoffrey Durham, whose stage name he's ripped off...

"Those who believe magic is in the props should take a piano apart and look for the music"

i like that it kinda makes sense , although i feel with this gimmick ...i have actually found the music ..... obviously the music is inside the performer not in the piano likewise the magic is in the person not the props ..id like to believe that but i dont think its true ...it is for music unless your reading somebdy elses music in which case the music is on the paper ...

what im saying is ..where would the mentalist be who relied on this if it failed mid act ...just broke ...hed be totally cabaged ... much better relying on sleight of hand and diversion than a machine.... i guess when the chips are down thats when you see a real entertainer , lol somebodys mobile phone cud wipe out the ufo 2 mid performance . its a lazy mans gadget!!!

the great suprendo wrote:what im saying is ..where would the mentalist be who relied on this if it failed mid act ...just broke ...hed be totally cabaged ... much better relying on sleight of hand and diversion than a machine.... I guess when the chips are down thats when you see a real entertainer , lol somebodys mobile phone cud wipe out the ufo 2 mid performance . its a lazy mans gadget!!!

I've had days where I've performed several Naked effects in a row and got nothing more than unspectacular near misses. But the people I've performed for have still applauded at the end because they can see a pattern forming showing a deeper ability.

Seriously mate, froget all this UFO2 nonsense. Consult your vast purloined library and look up the word "out".

Please don't let it diminish your respect for mentalists, that would be unfair to a diverse and interesting field.
Something that you need to think about is the way your perceptions of magic and mentalism will change as you learn more about the subject, it is simply natural. Just like I'm sure a surgeon thinks differently about the human body, so magicians think differently about magic and mentalists think differently about mind reading. So before you go any further in your studies maybe you might want to ask yourself if you want to continue, for once the veil is lifted it's hard to look at this amazing art form with the same eyes...

"I've had days where I've performed several Naked effects in a row and got nothing more than unspectacular near misses. But the people I've performed for have still applauded at the end because they can see a pattern forming showing a deeper ability."

are you sure they werent just being nice ?