talkmagic.co.uk

I read the following rather cynical description in Peter Lamont's excellent read The Rise of the Indian Rope Trick and wondered what people made of it:

"The Indian magic dealers resembled those in Blackpool or Las Vegas: more skilful and experienced than most of their customers, thus capable of making a simple trick look more impressive than it will later, when the cusomer practises once in front of a mirror, then promptly consigns it to the drawer of mystery."

Actually, that's why something like TM is so good - real reviews from real people can help avoid some of these consignments. Although they also encourage CUPS so it works both ways!

The reviews one here (and recommendations from those you trust) are a godsend. Dealers will, and can, try to sell you any old rubbish and make it sound wonderful. We've all been there!

...though i would say that just because the dealer dem might have a higher skill level than the purchaser - that's hardly their fault is it?

something to aspire to surely? though i agree some effects are over hyped...or just old methods and effects with one tiny change and then they call it "brand new principles involved"...

You're right - it's not their fault. They practise all day! So Peter's comments made me think about my own laziness in practise and were almost a rebuke to me as much as to the dealers!

That said, I have just been watching an old Ali Bongo lecture borrowed from a friend, and it is full of wonderfully 'straightforward' magic. His philosophy seems to be to simplify everything so you can concentrate on the presentation. Of course, you still need to practise the presentation, even if the 'moves' are simple...

But sometimes the description of the effect is misleading. I have bought things which sounded great but when it arrived was the most unusable piece of rubbish I have ever seen and it's nothing to do with skill level. There were no sleights or anything involved, but just a rubbish effect which would only fool the partially sighted.

One thing I object to, is dealers who delete all the negative reviews from their site, which gives you a very unbalanced opinion of the item. It appears that everyone who has bought it was satisfied, but that's not the case as some (though not all) dealers delete anything negative and claim 'exposure' even when you review didn't.

That's why forums like this are important. In the main, you get real opinions from people who have paid out money for something and if they are unhappy will quite clearly say so. Much more useful.

Learning to decipher what a dealer or dealer ad is really saying is a bit like learning another language:

When the dealer -- or ad -- says "New and improved", it means "this is marginally better than the piece of c*** (not the best) we sold you before."

When he says "no wires, magnets, or string", you can be sure "thread" is involved.

When it says "every magician should have this", it means, "let's make being suckered unanimous!"

When it says "can be done straight out of the box", it means "don't waste your time rehearsing; it isn't going to fool anyone anyhow."

When it says.. . . oh, you get the idea and can fill in the others yourself.

I say it is the dealers fault for buy this trash and then trying to pawn it off on others. Telling the dealer what your skill level will keep him from showing you something you can't do, but ultimately its your decision, so ask what slieghts are used and will you show me how to do this if I buy it. Bottom line is, dealers need to sell and we want to buy, be selective and read the posts. BTW, there are honest dealers out there that will treat you with respect and you can learn who they are in here as well.
Cheers
Al

If I have bought something in the past which I have not yet had the skill level to perform, it poses no problem as I can put it aside and come back to it, which is why books which have a variety of difficulties in the effects last you a long time.
What I object to is rubbish effects which have nothing to do with the level of skill, but are just really poor effects which sound great from the advert but are completely unusable.

There are some really good dealers out there, ones who are honest with you and tell you the lowdown on things from their point of view and if something is naff will tell you so. World Magic Shop and Magicbox stand out as two dealers who are helpful and honest and have steered me away from potential bad buying decisions and guided me towards things which I have been delighted with.

You tend to sort out the wheat from the chaff with experience and learn which dealers are decent, honest ones and which you should avoid.

Lord Freddie writes, in part: "There are some really good dealers out there, ones who are honest with you and tell you the lowdown on things from their point of view. . ."

That's true; there ARE some good dealers out there; the trouble is, they are outnumbered about 50 to one by the scam artists

If you end up with a good dealer, cherish him and support him; good dealers are an endangered species.

You're right there. The good ones I go back to time and time again as I know that I will get honesty and a good service. The bad ones I will avoid and advise others to do so.