talkmagic.co.uk

Hey guys
I was just thinking what would be a interesting post to make , so i came up with this, just a topic where we can all give our advice on inventing magic tricks. I will give the stages that i have been following here.

1) Think about what you would like to see in a trick. (A totally amazing effect)

2) Do some research to see if there is a trick like your idea.

3) If there is then buy it download it what ever.

4) Try to improve on the trick, me be make a new presentation for it.

5) If your effect is not on the market then start to think about how you will do the effect. Basically think of a method for it.

6) Analyse the method listing things like the advantages and things or stuff you could improve on. For example if there is a angle problem, try to think of a different sleight to use.

7) Work on a interesting presentation that will get your spectators hooked.

Well they are a few tips that I have used. It takes time thinking of new effects, so when your practising just have a notebook and pen with you just encase a idea comes. (Trust me this happens).

I am hoping a lot of the more experienced magicians on this forum can help out with giving tips. I sure could do with as much tips as possible.

I would have also gone into selling your product, but i don’t think that is good unless you want to get abut famous. Most of my stuff I keep with myself.


Ben Bale

Ahhh, Mr Derren Brown. What a guy.

I'd like to second what YankeeTom said and just to elaborate for those uninitiates to the world of DB, a basic process of creating magic can be as follows:

1) Think of how you want to leave the spectator feeling at the end of your effect i.e. left thinking " that was beautiful" or "I think i've just experienced REAL magic" or " I want this man's babies". Something along those lines.

2) Try to think of an effect that will create these feelings in your spectator. When I say effect I'm not talking about the method, I mean exactly what the spectator will experience not just what they will see.

3) Work on a way of actually making the effect possible i.e. the method.

NB You should never try to create a workable effect from a method. It's possible and in most cases it's quite a bit easier. However, it leaves the effect limp and lifeless because your working with yourself in mind rather than the spectator.

Hope this helps.


Fish

GoldFish wrote:1) Think of how you want to leave the spectator feeling at the end of your effect i.e. left thinking " that was beautiful" or "I think i've just experienced REAL magic" or " I want this man's babies". Something along those lines.

Yeah I agree. I've started to get the feeling that people are being shown too many card tricks and so they aren't as brilliant any more. People now also realize that cards can be gaffed, so everyone's suspicious.
So maybe when creating a new trick, use an everyday object that people can find in their houses or on the street. Some of David Blaine's best tricks (Restored coke can, coffee to money) use normal objects. The best thing about them is that you can plant them anywhere and make it look like you've just picked something up, instead of pulling out your 'normal' pack of cards, as people immediately think "what's he going to do and how is he going to do it?" whilst people don't know what to expect with everyday objects.
I think the only exception to this thing about cards is flourishes, as people realise that it involves a lot of skill and practice.

Yeah I agree. I've started to get the feeling that people are being shown too many card tricks and so they aren't as brilliant any more. People now also realize that cards can be gaffed, so everyone's suspicious.

I aggree that so many people are over exposed to card tricks but I don't neccesarily think that you can't create strong magic with cards any more. If you do want to create a new card effect I think it is really important to think outside of the normal realms of card magic. Its difficult to accuratly define what is meant by "thinking outside the bowl" (note signature, and possible book name ) but i'll have a go and try and stay specific to the topic.

To think outside the bowl you have to first tkae an imaginary step back away from yourself and then try and create something new and original. This often means stepping away from normal magic tradition and coming up with something really new. I find that a good way of doing this is to sit and play with a deck of cards and then perhaps an idea will pop into my head. Another thing that I find helpful for inspiration, is to watch a demo video for an effect and then work backwards like a reverse engineer. Sometimes I will come up with my own working for the same effect, sometimes I will come up with a variant of the effect and sometimes I'' come up with a brand new effect altogether.

Try and find inspiration from different things. Sometimes it's very difficult to get inspiration from the "real" world though and it can be easier to look introspectivly at a problem and work outwards and then audience test the effect to see if it's workable.

Audience testing is also a very important stage of effect creation so don't neglect it. If you don't audience test your effects you might go out to perform the effect when it really matters and realise, to your embaressment, that the effect is rubbish.

Just to reiterate,in a very basic form, the four stages of effect creation are:


1) INSPIRATION - You get an idea for an effect and in the back of your mind you know that its workable.

2) METHODISATION (I don't think thats a real word!) - You spend time working out a method for the effect and refining it to a performable standard.

3) AUDIENCE TESTING - You perform the basic effect and based on your results you either a) refine the presentation ready for performance or b) go back to stage 2 for re-evaluation.

4) PERFORMANCE - The final effect is released on the unsuspecting public with devastating consequences. Rapturous applause spontaneously sweeps the country leaving you dazed and confused with your head larger than a fully inflated hot air balloon!

I have several methods but the one that I tend to use the most is to decide what would fool the pants off me, and then work my way backwards to figure out how I did it. One of the routines I have developed is an international reverse matrix, standard reverse matrix but using a half dollar, copper coin, chinese coin (with hole) and £2 coin (and no extra coins). The reverse matrix has been my favourite coin routine ever since I saw Roberto Giobbi perform it in the early 80's. I wanted to make it even more impossible whilst looking as clean as the version Robeerto won FISM with. My methodology is that I start from the completed trick and work my way backwards, hard to explain but it works for me. I'm at the end and I ask right how did I get here? I then gradually backtrack through the routine untill I get to the start. Funny enough though once I've got to the start and I know how to do the effect I then go forwards and see if I can tweak it and add some kickers. I usually use this method for creating a new twist on an old idea or for making a great routine more impossible (and usually aimed at other magicians rather than lay audiences as laymen will be just as amazed by the french drop as they are by a raven vanish if it is performed properly, either way a coin vanished). My current project is a coin version of open travellers card routine (not to be confused with the matrix type open travellers coin routines).

I guess the reason this method works so well for me is because psychologically I am starting from a position of success. By starting from the end and working backwards I have already accepted that the method exists and it is just a case of finding it. Whereas if I start from the beginning I don't yet know if it is possible to get to where I want to end up. Best analogy I can think of is that if I were to blindfold you and take you into the middle of nowhere, sooner or later you'd find your way home, but if I were to tell you I was waiting for you in the middle of nowhere you may spend a lifetime looking and never find me

My other method is to let my mind do the work for me. The brain is an incredible piece of kit, and is one of the best problem solving machines known to man. Whilst your recall may not be perfect your memory is exceptionally good, your brain has every moment and every experience of your whole life stored. If left to its own devices the brain will search through that huge database and will find what it needs. How I use this to my advantage is to feed in the required paramaters then let the brain go away and find the answer. To do this spend some time concentrating hard on the requirements, ie needs to be simple, needs to be eye catching, must use everyday objects, will be performed standing etc etc. After spending a period of about 20 mins concentrating hard on the requirements I will then forget about it and let the brain go and search through it's storage for something that fits the requirements.

An example of this in action was some years ago I needed a big finish for a close up act. It had to be snappy, unexpected, visual and most importantly easy (I was running out of time ) It also needed a witty patter line so that I could finish nicely. After focussing on these requirements quite hard I went to bed and forgot about it. Shortly after breakfast the next day it hit me in a flash, 3 small hooks on the back of my close up pad, a bottle of Schweppes tonic water hanging from each hook by small loops of fishing wire. After finishing my last routine I lift the back of my close up pad pivoting the pad towards the audience (P / I) (imagine the P is the audience and the / is the close up mat and the I is me (viewed from the side oh and I'm taller than the I ) tipping the coins off the mat (and bringing the bottles up to the table). As I do this I say "After performing these little miracles I am often asked who taught me to do magic" At this point I slide the mat to the right (which unhooks and reveals the 3 bottles) and say "Sshh !! You know who" (Hehe that advert and the line was well known in those days".

Ok I know I just revealed a secret but as it is one of mine and I haven't used it for years consider it a freebie although if the mods want to remove the explanation on principle go ahead and do so (but I'd appreciate it if you pm me a copy of the unedited version first to save me typing it at a later date when I have access to the secret area )

Hehe what started as a quick reply turned into an essay, my apologies, I have a habit of doing that, I talk too much in real life too

Mark

nice idea for a finish man and has plenty of scope for adaption you could produce a magic set by paul or marvin's instead.

Yup, you could produce almost anything with that method, simple but effective, although ideally multiple items works best as it adds to the air of impossibility, the hand may be quick enough to sneak up one item but not 3 or more. Also avoid producing square stuff, a shape that contrasts with the shape of the mat works better. For my purposes the play on the line from the schweppes advert was perfect for the closing line. That line wouldn't be so good these days unless your auidience is predominantly old farts like me

Mark

what started as a quick reply turned into an essay, my apologies

No need for apologies at all, Mark, this was a refreshing change from the usual one-liners which crop up here from time to time. In addition it's informative and provocative enough so that you've got me thinking in reverse. Daft as it sounds, I already do reverse thinking in my day job where customers present a required end result, in terms of a gas/liquid flow/pressure and I figure out how to get to it - usually by starting at the end point as that's the only data available. Great posting so many thanks for it - I've printed it off for quiet study at home tonight as She Who Must Be Obeyed is otherwise occupied until 10pm!

Just to take it further I'll expand on some of my points on the bottle production, the reason I say to avoid something the same shape as the mat is that the lack of contrast diminishes the effect. One of the earliest tasks our brain learns is pattern matching, particularly sorting things into same/different.

If you remove your square black close up pad to reveal a square black box the appearance does not register immediately and also once it does register the box and the mat are likely to be sorted by the brain as "same" and so the mat and box are grouped together. Also when something unexpected happens the brain immediately searches through it's databank of references and experiences trying to make sense of what happened (this process is known in NLP as a transderivational search). The danger here is that the brain having already grouped the objects into same, forms the subconcious conclusion that the box and the mat go together and so establishes a connection between the mat (method) and the box (effect), a connection we would rather they didn't find .

On the other hand if there is a large contrast between the produced item and the mat the effect registers instantly due to the sudden change of colour and shape. The brain sorts the mat and the production item as different and effectively separates the item from the mat and thus moves away from the secret instead of towards it. This is strengthened when producing more than one of the object (ie 3 bottles) because the brain sorts the 3 bottles as same, and the mat as different further separating the effect from the method.

Mark

When it comes to inventing magic, or mainly new stage illusions I tend not to think of a trick and work out how it is done. I think of a secret then give it a tale. I look at everday objects....get inspiration from things we take for granted in the modern world.
My simple tip on how to invent magic, is try not to! You will find that one day inspiration from things you would never imagine will create an amazing effect.
O and Remeber...one thng...."Anything is Possible....When your in the Audience"

Samagik wrote:My simple tip on how to invent magic, is try not to!

Is that tip really that simple?

That's a great philosophy to have Sam and I understand exactly what you mean but how do you personally go about developing an idea into an effect?

If you don't know what I mean, reread the threads above.

Also it, would be great if you developed your ideas further.

i see thats how mr blaine thought up his levitation trick then, he was sitting on his porch reading an article on the bulduchie levitation when a crane flew over his house.

hmm crane plus levitation, hmm, yes ive got it now, oo yes add some camera trickery and I'm on to a winner oh yeesss.

good points though when inventing think backwards, what do you want to achieve then list the established methods and see if any need to be improved apon to achieve your goal, don't over complicate the issue or over analize the effect, remember a prototype is just that a working modle of an idea mot the finnished product.
don't stress the finer details just relax and create.

hey goldfish...i no wot u mean. My mind works in mysterious ways. Im trying to say really that if you put deep thought and time into an effect the result will be much better than if you try to hard. For example: I have just finished designing a new effect in which a candle placed in its holder is seen on your table during your whole performance. The magician walks into the audience and picks one person. He tells the person to concentrate on the candle (the magician is upto 50ft away from the candle now) After a second or 2 the wick starts to smoke and in a blink it is seen lit!
This affect took me a while to develop. I found that by constantly thinking up new methods and ideas only set me back. And surprisingly I got the method of the trick froma car window!
Hope it makes things clearer....
all the best
Sam

Not really. I think i see where you're trying to go though.

Let me reiterate what I think you're saying:

You cannot create a trick by trying to make a method. You have to realise that the method is already there.

That's my philospophy actually, but I think it fits what you're trying to say aswell ( ? ).

But that's more of a personal thing with how I work in my head. I've expressed the practical side of my creative process in an earlier post.