talkmagic.co.uk

hey, I live in Toronro, Canada, so some places are not going to be the same from where you guys are....

Ok, i want to build some illusions. But i know that if i were to build it myself it would definately would not be the best working, strongest, and greatest looking illusion.

So, since most places that build/sell illusions charge a lot of money to buy and build the props.

So, where can i find someone or people that can build illusions for me?
Im not sure where to look, since there are no official "places" that have people waiting to be hired to build custome materials.

I dont know where to look or what to look for.

So, any ideas for looking for a builder for me?

Ok... I'm betting you're still in High School (possibly younger), so why don't you sign up for shop class and LEARN HOW to do the cabinet work yourself? That is what many of us have done, either while in school or as an adult taking night classes or weekend workshops or (this one's killer) serving as a helper with a real cabinet maker that can help you learn the craft while making a bit of money to help you build what you're wanting.

As I've explained to you previously even in building your own pieces you can expect to have well over $1,000.00 tied up in each effect; the last Thin Model Sawing Cabinet I built had just over $1,500.00 in materials tied up in it... Shadow Vision, when Kenny and I first brought it out, cost us over $5,000.00 per unit to build +.

I've tried to talk with and guide you but you seem to not want to listen to those of us that have done this sort of work; Dale and I having been around the block more than a few times when it comes to the world of stage magic as well as magic history. So I guess my question is, do you really want to learn about this field or are you just wanting to have things, just to have them?

Have you taken time to weigh all of the headaches associated with grand illusions?

Have you taken time to consider what YOU need to learn and know, including thespian based skills, that will be required for presenting a solid Illusion act?


As to your question... you are in North America e.g you best bet is to work with the American builders. The ones closest to you would include Abbotts in Colon, Michigan... I believe there's a few in New York State as well as Pennsylvania but I'd have to do some research as to who they are and the quality of what they sell, etc.

The other thing is money... you must have at least half the money the prop will cost up-front when you order the item with the balance due prior to delivery. In most cases that's about 6-8 weeks after the order has been placed, it may differ given the time of year. Many noted builders get slammed with orders this time of year for the needs of summer tour shows and theme parks so an order right now might now be seen before late June or July.

The other side of the money issue includes costumes, storage, rehearsal space, insurance, transportation for the props/crew/and support equipment...

Support Equipment?

Oh yes! Lighting, Sound, Microphone system, back-stage communication systems, etc. On the low end you are looking at around $5,000.00 for a decent sound system that will do you well in the typical High School styled facility to VFW Hall... another $5,000.00 or so for basic lighting and at least that much more for decent sets/curtains and proscenium blocks... add to all that two other important items; ATA Cases for each effect (some require two or more cases @ an average cost of around $1,200.00 each depending on size, etc.) Then you of course need a truck or van big enough to transport it all... and anyone that's owned a car knows how expensive that can get.

A "small" illusion act with 5 large feature pieces (stock) and about the same number of "Illusionette" pieces such as the Lake Head Chopper, a few smaller bits... figure it at 45 minutes in running time will entail a personal investment of between $35,000.00 and $60,000.00 depending upon which effects you go with and the source (home built, purchased used vs. new from a noted source, etc.) That don't include the additional $15,000.00 or more you must invest into video (not home made... professional quality only) and close to the same for a press kit, mailings and just getting started.

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I want you to understand what this kind of act involves on the very realistic front... the scary thing is, I've not even touched upon the real nasty stuff yet, such as how freak'n heavy these systems are and how often it will be just you putting things together and setting up the show then tearing down the show, packing the truck and driving 3 or four hours down the road to your next gig, getting maybe 3-4 hours sleep before having to do it all over again. I've not pointed out how you must still go out and do this when you are running a high fever, have busted knuckles, an aching back and all the other joys that come with THEATER!

She's a horrid and vicious mistress that will beat you to a pulp, which is why the majority of folks never make it past that first year or two... many, less than that; especially when they discover that IT'S A JOB!

Now I've offered to help you out, but I do expect you to get a bit more realistic as to what your capabilities are physically as well as economically. Your enthusiasm is great but it's blinding you. Even if you can afford to buy it all, it doesn't mean you have what it takes to "do it"... that takes tons of dedication, patience, humility and the willingness to be willing to learn... to LISTEN and let other more experienced people guide and mold you in a way that will give your dream life... Not me but the choreographers, directors, script writers, acting coaches, etc.

Look up FLASH... the guy with the Gorilla... ask him about focus and creativity.

Think it all over... come down to earth and let those that have offered to put you on the right course, help you.

first off all, i am just on my last year of high school.
Secondly, i AM taking construction classes.

But my point is, even though i have a lot of experience with building all sorts of projects from all different materials and sizes... It still wont be as good if a professional with a lot of years of experience would do it.

And i dont know any builders in Canada, or anywhere else in the world that arnt illusion/magic builders. My best bet is to find some collage workers or a bit better. But how/where do i find them? if i search the yellowpages in my local phonebook.. i dont know what names/businesses to look for. The closest i can get/found were large contruction home builders, but thats not what i want. I just need 1-2 builders who can make a few illusions.

I know that this will cost more then making it myself, but I will be satisfied since i will know that i can trust the illusion to work and it will last a long time if i take care of it. So, Yes! i know it will cost about $1,000 +
As long as i am satisfied with an illusion and know that i will not be using it only once, it is worth it. But if i build it and is c*** (not the best) and dont like it anymore then why spend all that money? The more inpressive the illusion the more worth it will be!

YES! i have mentioned many times! I am FULLY aware of all the troubles needed to do a grand illusion show, or as a matter of fact, ANY magic show. I have the storage, i can get the money, my dad has a large truck for transport so i have it all...
I can do anything i want to do as long as i am dedicated and willing to do it. So, if i am sick.. i will not let a feaver ruin the audiences happyness, i will not let traveling far distances without sleep stop me. I am just unstopable. I just cant go through life without Magic or illusions!

The only thing is the lighting and sound systems. As of now, i am performing at theatres that allow me to practice as much as i want using theur lights/sound systems. But as soon as i get more illusions and more money i will be getting my own lighting and sounds. Or will be hiring professionals to help me with it. - Not to worry about!

I a appart of a group full of dancers from folk and ballroom. I know the instuctor very well as he has taught me many years for my magic. He has Hundreds of costums that ranges from many years back to modern time costumes. Thats not a problem either.

I have set a crew of a few people at the moment. so far its not a lot, but it is just what i need at the moment. And will be getting more as soon as i get my illusions in. I get many volunteers now.

Right now.. i am NOT going full out with the lights and sound systems. I know it is one of the most important but i am not going to be using 100 different types of lighting and colours for my first illusion shows in a while.

I Am Fully dedicated to become a true Grand Illusionist. This is my life. This is what i do. This is what i enjoy to do. And this is the only thing i want to do.
I have worked many years to become where i am now, so i dont want anyone ruining my chances of success talking about my age, money, or other stuff they dont know about me.
All i ever do is think of magic, talk about magic, my life is devoted to this business. It is who i am. My parents/friends wont stop yelling at me to spot talking about magic, magic performances, illusions, etc.
I am just the type of person who loves to entertain and make people happy.. the young, the old etc. I love doing things that impress people. I would do anything to save the world. So, creating magic for others is even more entertaining for me then for the audience. Doing things that not many others can do is a gift. And i am going to keep it going!

Not sure if that all made sense.. i wrote it fast and its late..
but you get the idea. So, i am serious about anythin i ask. This is not any joke to me or to you.

I am actually looking to become a professional or near. So, i need your help guys...

Anyone you know who can build illusion props for me? (not professional illusion builders) The only stuff i can get for them are the gimmicked items. But other stuff + decorations can be build be other professionals.
But dont know who?

You might try going to craft fairs in your local area. There are often wood turners there who are also able to construct what you need.

I have met a few over the years that will build me things. I am also lucky to have a member of our local society who builds stuff.

Good luck!

You are in Toronto? Go to Morrissey Magic or the Browsers Den at least it used to be called the Browser's Den. And ask.

Most cabinet makers with experience will not touch illusions simply because they are too busy remodeling kitchens. Toronto is up to its ears in magicians find a few, ask around I'm sure they can give you a few leads.

Be very carefull about hiring a few guys with building experience because the interesting thing about building illusions is that if you really don't know much about them. Even with plans in hand they are bound to mess it up. Illusion building is an art all to itself with tricks, tips and subtleties that only come with experience. You will end up spending a lot of more money on people who don't know what they are doing (in both fields).

I can build a sub trunk. I can build a guillotine. I did it just to see if I could. The sub trunk which I thought would be easy given my knowledge of wood work magic and vast array of tools turned out to be a pain in the *rse. If I had never seen a really seen a good one mine would have been excellent. And in fact I was offered 500.00 for it by a budding illusionist. I turned him down and the trunk turned into a coffee table. It just wasn't up to the standards I had seen and if my name is going to be on it, its going to be good. Sure it was usable and would have done the trick but it was shamefull in respect to those who really know their stuff. I met an illusion builder who lives out in the smokey mountains, (I forget his name) I saw his set up. Seperate rooms for cutting, and assembly and finishing, a crew of people who really knew their chops. It became pretty darn obvious that building cabinets and bookshelves is a lot different from building, and especially finishing illusions. For many years I was buildingdove vanishing cages out of wood. Die boxes, Even got the permission for night club dove vanishes, mirror boxes and while tricky were far easier then illusions but even then the learning curve was quite costly in time money and materials. Its amazing how difficult it is to make a thick piece of wood look thin if you don't know what you are doing or don't really care.

And I can tell you most blueprints for illusions that are available are not a pleasure to follow. There is that two book set, 'Great Illusions Of Magic' I'm here to tell you, you had better understand how to read blue prints inside out and backwards, you better understand illusions themselves and you better have a flair for artistry. Because if you set your sights on one of those and go by the detailed plans. Well, give it a try everyone should experience that at least once in a life time. It is especially fun when you the plans tell you to put in a dovetail yet the joint in question has to fold. (I learned about a folding dovetail years later from an illusion builder in BC and for the record its not really a dovetail)

In short mine looked and worked like the ones you see the high school student or local guy doing in a talent show. And if that is what you are aiming for then great, go for it, nothing wrong with it. If you want to end up in Vegas going agains the Pendragons, then wait, take some theatre classes, get a job save some money and do it right.

Ok... you know and have it all... in your grand depth of absorbing what I and others have told you several times you keep missing the face that I have personally given you the names of several sources several times.

Now it is obvious that you have access to a pc or some-such device... why don't you do a search on the google bar for ABBOTTS or Bill Smith or Owens Magic... all of whom I've mentioned to you.

I do need to correct your thinking on one point... that $1,000.00 level in cost is if you make things... that Shadow Box you are working on would cost closer to $6,000.00 -- $8,000.00 via a real professional builder. Cutting edge pieces of the sort you are probably looking for start at around that level and go as high as $65,000.00 when it comes to "stock" commercial effects (including the FLYING from Copperfield fame). That is why I told you to check out MAGICAUCTION on line for USED professionally made props.

I understand now, you're Richie Rich perspective on things and why you aren't listening to those that have been there and actually done this sort of magic... people that know of the headaches and classic mistakes. So I will encourage you to do one more thing... track down and have a long chat with Franz Harary, tell him I sent you... ask him about what it is like to be headstrong at such a young age and what he went through in order to get to where he's at. Then ask yourself if you are truly ready to pay that price.

One other person, a Canadian that you may want to find and talk with is Paul Alberstat (http://www.mindguy.com/) ask him about his illusion show... he may even be able to help you with Canadian resources though I know that much of his collection came from other shows such as the John Daniel SHAZAM show.

Yes, you have some assets but as I've tried to convey, you don't have a foundation as of yet and you desperately need a hard dose of reality.

Here is Murray Hatfield's webpage. He is or was Canada's largest touring Illusion show. I believe he is now the owner of what was Tony Eng's magic shop in Victoria BC.

http://www.murrayhatfield.com/

Then there is Blair Marshall out of Montreal who bought a huge magic show many years ago and has been in this business forever. There are actually a few in Montreal. In my opinion Hatfield is a better resource

http://www.shazzamshow.com/

There is at least one in Winnapeg and another in Ottawa. I just for the life of me cannot remember their names.

and Abrestat as Craig has already mentioned.

Shawn Farquhar out of BC not stricktly an illusionist but does use some in his stage shows. But he is hard to get hold of as he is constantly on tour. Usually on cruise ships. He has built quite a few illusions including a many of the ones Julianna Chen uses, or was using it has been awhile since I have spoken to either of them.