talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all,

I have got a question regarding to copyright.
A friend of mine is interested in making his own coin gimmics (like the one for sale at Tango Magic online shops). he wants to produce Aus coins as ther are none at the moment. Mostly US coins.

is there any copyright for this as he wants to sell it for extra pocket money.

Thanks guys!
Mel

Coin Gimmicks would be extremely hard to make and require a certain level of engineering skill plus complicated machinery as far as i know,so before your question is answered,are you certain your friend can make proper coin gimmicks?

HI, thanks for the reply. he works in metal lathe industry and it's his job to do metal lathe. it's just that he happens to like coin magic as well.

Thanks

There are no copyrights to it, as you can't copyright a gimmick.

Dustin is correct - copyright covers things that can be copied (generally), like books, pictures, etc.

Copyright law can get fairly messy and then you can throw in international copyright law to make it even messier! Since you are talking about US coins, I will suppose that you are a US citizen. In that case, to study copyrights, I suggest http://www.copyright.gov/ which will give you what you're looking for.

Regarding the coins, though, you're really talking about patenting and that costs a HUGE sum of money. In fact, generally, the cost of a patent far outweighs the value of an item that you are looking to manufacture unless it's going to be mass produced or has a large market (and magic isn't really a large market).

Further, how do you know that AUS coins are not already covered under a patent? Just because they aren't being made doesn't mean that they aren't patented. Even if they aren't patented, does that give your friend the right to rip off someone else's idea (particularly to make a profit)?

And, before I forget, what the hell are AUS coins?

Anyway, just some stuff to think on.

Mike.

Perhaps Australian? If so, I know Todd Lassen makes gaffs with Australian coins (among many others).

Assume you are talking about producing AUS versions of "Scotch & Soda" etc?

Generally speaking, there are 3 main areas of intellectual property:

(1) Copyright: The words of a book for example are subject to copyright. The copyright lasts (according to AUS law) for 75 years after the author's death. Obviously this type of area is not something you need to consider with your question.

(2) Trademarks: This relates to a name or logo or both. An area you may need to be careful with in your case is the name used to describe an effect, for example, it is "possible" for someone to have registered the name "Scotch & Soda" in which case you may run into trouble if you try and use the same name.

Solution: Pay a patent and trademark attorney AU$2,000 - $3,000 to do a search for you or choose an alternative name. Trademarks can last indefinately if kept up to date by the owner.

(3) Patents: There are 2 main types. A "Design" Patent describes the "look" of something. These are very specific and can usually be overcome by making your design look aesthetically different. A "Utility" Patent is a different story. If there is a patent in place for any coin gimmicks, this is the type of patent that would most likely be used. Essentially you stake a "claim" to a method of making something or a way in which that "something" functions. The descriptions can sometimes be quite broad and so potentially describe several ways of making something, not just the way the patent owner makes it.

In other words, changing something a little does not necessarily mean you do not infringe this kind of patent. These patents last between 20 - 25 years.

Solution: Pay a patent attorney AU$2,000 - $3,000 to do a search for you, "wing it" and hope no one has a patent, or if you are so inclined, design your own effects and try and market them.

In my opinion, it is quite unlikely patents exist for coin gimmicks. the cost is too high compared to the potential gain, ie.

In AUS alone it would be around:
Initial search AU$3,000
Application AU$3,000
Completing your Patent AU$2,000

In the US around US$10,000

In the EU (around 25 countries) around US$30,000 - US$100,000 depending on how many countries you want to do.

I understand your friend's desire to have AUS versions of these gimmicks. Although if part of your presentation talks about how you acquired "these coins" during your "travels" having a US half dollar and a Mexican Centavo can be a plus.

Of course there are numerous other coin gimmicks you could refer to...

One other comment, I have 2 sets of S&S coin gimmicks. One is excellent while the other is c*** (not the best)! I "was told" the difference is that the good one was created with the use of a laser, while the c*** (not the best) one was made with a lathe?

Good Luck! Aussies aren't just great at sport you know... they are very innovative as well.

In some countries it's illegal, or at least officially frowned upon, to muck about with coins. Would it be worth checking to see if that's the case in Australia?

I don't see a problem with it. No one has a copywrite on the idea of a shell etc, mostly the people famous for their coins (i.e. Eddie Gibson) simply did the first or do the best.

Unless you specifically go out to copy a particular marketed trick coin (like buying a "supacoin" to see how it works, then copying it) then you are into more risky territory but even then, if it's not done with the particular coins you're using - I may be wrong about this, but I don't think you can copyright an idea.

All in all, these guys may be giving you the fully detailed legal shimbo (?! just invented a new word!) on it, but if I was your friend I'd just go for it and stop if someone raises any reasonable objections. If he's just selling them to magic friends or at a local magic shop I really don't think he'll run into much trouble - if he starts trying to exhibit worldwide and suggests they're totally original to him, he'll get the trouble he's asking for.