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Currently studying Expert Card Technique (brilliant book by the way!) and read through the self working tricks in the back. Some of them require passes D/Ls forces, palms etc, yet in some of the other trick sections such as birds of a feather-the tricks are more self working in my opinion! Set me thinking-what is the difference??Or has the use of the words changed over the years? Cheers!

Yes I've noticed this Mr Cheese.

I assumed it is because the book is aimed at seasoned magicians.
I mean, just like an impatient child can pick up a beginner's book and perform self-workers from it right away, an impatient magician can pick up ECT and use the self-workers immediately because they know the 'stock' moves.

My point is that the term 'self working' is a little relative.

get the scarne book if you want lots of self working effects...just apply creative thinking...

Marvo,

I see where you are coming from but I still think its a miss-leading thing to say in a book.

Whether you are a rank amateur or seasoned pro, you can't argue that self-working means anything except, the trick works itself. To my mind, I cannot accept that any self-working trick can have an advanced sleight in it.

I only do one self-working trick, Worlds Best Magician, which I believe was in one of Daniels books. The only requirement is to be able to deal cards into a pile, to me thats self-working. I enhance it a bit, but thats my version.

I like self-working tricks. The only thing I find frustrating about them is that they often require complicated setups that I have trouble remembering. I do, however, especially like Mark Wilson's Tic-Tac-Toe Prediction.

It doesn't really matter does it? It really is HOW you PRESENT the effect that is the important thing. You could use a gaff deck whereby a card is selected and placed into the middle and it rises to the top, or you could do a DL and the card rises back to the top. As long as you present it correctly, it shouldn't make much of a difference.

But personally, I prefer tricks using sleights because I like practising sleights and I feel a sense of accomplishment when using sleights .

The effect is the only thing that matters, so gravitate to the method you like and enjoy yourself!

Scarne on Card Tricks might be the classic book here. 150 smart tricks, reverse-engineered to take out al the sleights. Genius stuff: http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic8360.php Dirt cheap, too. Smashing stuff.

I always like to keep things as simple as possible. In my mind, the less complicated sleights you've got to worry about, the more effort you can put into the presentation.

I've never really seen the point of using a complicated set of moves if something nice and simple would do the trick just as well. That's the main reason that I've never really bothered with the pass, I don't do any tricks can't be done using a simpler method.

thebigcheese wrote:Currently studying Expert Card Technique (brilliant book by the way!) and read through the self working tricks in the back. Some of them require passes D/Ls forces, palms etc, yet in some of the other trick sections such as birds of a feather-the tricks are more self working in my opinion! Set me thinking-what is the difference??Or has the use of the words changed over the years? Cheers!

That's because there is no such thing as a "self working trick."

For me the linking rings; Stan, Kate and Edith; the zombie ball and several others are "self working tricks."

In the era that Expert Card Technique was published, those tricks that are labeled "self working" were probably considered that by any card man. In the era of "Ellusionist" they are not. So, it is relative.

In other words:

Marvo Marky wrote:I assumed it is because the book is aimed at seasoned magicians.
I mean, just like an impatient child can pick up a beginner's book and perform self-workers from it right away, an impatient magician can pick up ECT and use the self-workers immediately because they know the 'stock' moves.

Yep.

Mike.

The point I was getting at, was that the self working tricks section is about as complex as the other tricks in the book-therefore does that make the book a self working book with hints and tips on better D/L's, passes presentation misdirections etc?