talkmagic.co.uk

Have you ever had anyone see straight through 'The Trick That Fooled Einstein' ?

It's one of my very favourite effects, happens entirely in the presentation and in the mind, no gimmicks or sleights, and until this time has always stunned people.

But the other day my female friend just scoffed 'Well that's obvious!'. it may have been because she happened to have already known exactly how much change she had in her purse and it happened to be a very 'round' figure, but even so when things like that happen it makes me
rather gunshy with an effect for a while

I recently started performing TTFE about a month ago. I was wondering if anyone could explain how or why this works. Not looking for exposure, more the math or science behind the trick. I cant seem to figure out how it works all of the time. Every time I have done it, it has never been wrong.

Big D

LambertClan2006 wrote:I recently started performing TTFE about a month ago. I was wondering if anyone could explain how or why this works. Not looking for exposure, more the math or science behind the trick.

If X = A+B+C

And Y = A

Then X (also) = Y+B+C

I don't think this is exposure, as you need to know the trick for this to make sense. I understand that it might not make sense even then! It doesn't explain ALL the subtleties, of course. I should also point out that while X and B are always the same values, Y (and therefore A) and C change.

X-B = A+C

I've posted it, rather than put it in a PM, because others might be interested, but moderators, please amend my post if you think it is exposure.

If X = A+B+C

And Y = A

Then X (also) = Y+B+C

X-B = A+C


Okay, I went all the way to college level trigonometry and I have worked through the above equation. I used ABC as the three statments you make. It always seems to work. I just dont understand how with X being a random number and Y being an unknown random number. I guess I need to get out a pen and paper and drive myself insane til I figure out why it works, or just not worry about it and just take it for what it is: A mind blowing effect.

Big D

Forgive my ignorance, but what is this trick? And, assuming it's as fantastic as you guys are saying it is, where do you purchase it?

I'm assuming it's a method to correctly predict the exact coin change people have in their pocket?

And maybe we could get a reference of who performed this effect for Einstein. When this is supposed to have happened and in what sense were Einstein fooled. It would also be nice with a short description of the effect. I am sure your girl friend is very clever, but the fact that she worked out the method might be down to poor performance. Most effects are easy to work out if they are performed incorrectly.

I hope your performance were better than your description of the effect? I must admit that I could not make any sense of your narration.

I love this effect and have a special treasure chest made up with old sic treasue coins with a script which state a load of old rubbish about an old ships captain etc etc

love it

I learnt it from a Osterlind DVD

I managed to find the answer to my question:

Have a look at:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63785

The story goes that Al Koran fooled Einstein with this trick not once but twice (using nickels in a bowl).

I just dont understand how with X being a random number and Y being an unknown random number

You don't have any unknowns in here. As soon as you both cut the deck you both have a "constant" number of cards in your hand.

Your pile is X and the spectators cards are Y as "part timer" has already said. His only mistake was that there is a third variable. The number of cards that you actually give to the spectator at the very end of the trick.

In this routine you never predict your spectators hand. You don't even say that you are going to have the same number of cards.
All you say is: If I give you a couple of cards I can make your hand this.

You start out with the hands
X=Y+B+C
and
Y=Y (It is already confusing enough. We don't need another variable A)

This equation is defined by the three statements:
1st statement
Y=Y (What a surprise! The only mathematical relevant thing here is that you say that there exist cards that your spectator has.)

2nd statement
B=B (... another great mathematical proof!)

3rd statement
C=X-B (now here we get to the ONLY point where you need some math)

After setting up these equations I tried to solve them and got
X=Y+B+(X-B) leaving me with
X=Y+X

Y=0 at this point in time! ... telling you: with your three statements you did not define the spectators cards!. All you did was making him believe that you did.
So I went on and looked at the end of the trick. Because during the routine the hands change!

You end up with
X=Y+B (your cards/the cards you put down/the cards you did not give to the spectator)
and
Y=Y+D (your spectators cards)
where
D=X-B-Y (The number of cards that you are going to be left with after putting down B number of cards and Y number of cards)

Lets put the last equation together again: Y=Y+(X-B-Y) right?
... if you simplify you get

Y=X-B

Oh, wait a second. isn't that the statement that you make in your third step? That he will have as many cards as your cards minus the cards predicted in the second step?

... this is the math behind the trick. I hope it is understandable^^

Man, you guys are WAY overcomplicating a very simple thing.

You are simply telling the spectator how many coins/cards you have in your own hand. Nothing more, nothing less.

By "equalling" their coins/cards, then "burning" three coins/cards, then adding the left overs to their hand, you throw off their train of thought (which is why it fooled Einstien). But, all that you've really done is state the number of coins/cards that you have in your own hand. Simple as.

By the way, queen of clubs, you can find this trick in "Scarne Card Tricks" (Scarne). It is #92, "Quickie Card Trick." It works with cards or coins (or little pebbles, or markers/chips, or etc.).

Mike.

Briareos wrote:His only mistake was that there is a third variable. The number of cards that you actually give to the spectator at the very end of the trick.

I said that C is variable (or is that not what you meant?). What I didn't properly explain is that Y is actually an unknown number (it varies from performance to performance), but is fixed once the work of the trick starts. The particular version I was thinking of doesn't use a random selection at the start, but Briareos is right that, once you have your cards or coins, X is a fixed number.

I was keeping the maths simple, including having A=Y, as this follows the procedure of the trick more closely. I don't think reducing the equation actually explains what happens! It's the process that is confusing, and deliberately so.

Mike - you're absolutely correct, but I was trying to avoid giving too much away. Also, I was explaining exactly how it works mathematically, without revealing the trick to anyone who doesn't know it.

Incidentally, I think this is much more effective with coins (I think Koran called the trick 'Jackpot Coins') and also that you use values, rather than the number of items. Richard Osterlind's performance (as mentioned above) explains why in detail. Again, being on the open forum, I don't want to say too much.

I agree with everyone that this is a simple trick to perform. I wasn't to over complicate a brilliant trick, just trying to dig deeper into the mathmatics of the trick. Part Timer did a good job of helping me with this in his first reply. Wasn't trying to cause a big debate here, was just trying to understand the trick a little better.

Queen, if you google the trick that fooled einstein you will find everything you need. And the fact that it can be done with cards, coins, anything makes the trick even that much more appealing. To me anyway

Big D

I don't care how it works, I just care that it does work

@ part timer: I'm sorry, I didn't want to offend you and I am sorry that I apparently chose the wrong words to explain my point.

MickyScouse

I don't care how it works, I just care that it does work

You and me both! I've spent some considerable time trying to work it out and failing, ah there's a thing! Who says too much beer kills brain cells!!