talkmagic.co.uk

Madam. You really are a silly excitable girl.

You may have respect for Mr Jay. I certainly don't. He has been following me around wherever I post and trying to pick an argument.

You may not be aware that we have a history. On two occasions in the past few years this man had made threatening phone calls to me and my family. His lucid posts on here belie the fact that he seems a very dangerous person to me. When someone makes around 30 calls a day that person is either drunk or mentally unbalanced.

He brags about keeping a gun in his home. When armed Americans phone me saying that they will come up to Toronto to meet me I consider that a threat. I was on the verge of calling the police last time he did it. Let us hope he doesn't get tempted to go on this rampage again.

I have every sympathy for people who drink too much. However when it affects the safety of me and my family you can't expect me to have great love for him. Perhaps if you like him so much then you can live near him.

That is past history and I've made amends for it. You, of course, never fail to bring it up and throw it in my face every chance you get.

Why don't you leave history from over 6 years ago in the past, Mark? Was my apology to you and your family not enough? What would you have of me?

And, while you make the implication, there was NEVER a gun threat involved at any time, in any way, shape or form.

Never made any mistakes yourself? Maybe not. I have. Plenty. And, when I do I apologize. Unfortunately, some people are simply not big enough to allow the past to reamain there.

You have my deepest sympathies and I am honestly sorry for you.

Mike.

As I am for you. I always have been.
You are terribly lucky that I am a holy psychic reverend full of compassion.

But Mark, it's not just Michael, I've seen you act this way towards so many other forum members and 99% of the time it was totally unneeded.

now if what you claim is true then you have my sympathy but I'm in no position to be judge and jury. What I don't understand is why you bring these insults onto a public forum and in the process destroy yet another discussion.

oh this is pathetic, will the pair of you please carry this on somewhere else!

My apologies Lommy. I'm done.

Mike.

Jolly good my dear.
Then we shall get back to the rather awful Henning Nelms book. I note that you yourself have admitted to disagreeing with many of the points raised in said manuscript.

I would prefer not to have to question and disagree with my teacher all the time. Methinks you would be better off finding an alternative book that resonates with you better.

And to start another argument I don't like the Ken Weber book called "Maximum Entertainment" either. I have no idea why and I can't give you any particular reason. There is something about the book I don't like and I can't figure out what yet. I just can't put my finger on it. Let us call it instinct and gut feeling and leave it at that.

I suggest reading 'Hiding The Elephant' by Steinmeyer. While it may not answer the question of what is 'a good magic show' it will show how magic was percieved and why and how it has evolved, (or hasn't really) and may give you some food for thought.

One can imagine Jesus walking across the water and thinking to himself, "Yes, but what's my motivation for this scene?" Sometimes magic exists just because it can.

Of course. My point precisely.

Does Paul Daniels do the Chop Cup because there is "meaning"? No. He does it to get a good laugh and a little bit of puzzlement with it.

The meaning of the magic is the magic itself. Anything else is meaningless.

themagicwand wrote:One can imagine Jesus walking across the water and thinking to himself, "Yes, but what's my motivation for this scene?" Sometimes magic exists just because it can.

But, Wand, wasn't it you who stated earlier on this thread that you do readings? Those readings that you do are powerful, people love them. Why? Because there is a point.

Does Paul Daniels do the Chop Cup because there is "meaning"? No. He does it to get a good laugh and a little bit of puzzlement with it.

This is true. Fact is, though, the only people who remember it and talk about it on forums are magicians. Why is that? Because we, as magicians, find a point to magic - we love it, that's the point.

But regular people don't sit in pubs talking about Paul Daniel's chop cup routine. They talk about football, the weather or anything in their lives that makes a point.

I refer back to Fitzkee and the fact that magic is second rate entertainment and the very last choice that people make when deciding on entertainment for their event - it's because other forms of entertainment have evolved and followed the path of what people want. Trust me, nobody is going to skip having the DJ at their wedding because they wouldn't be able to afford the magician, otherwise.

Anyone who chooses to go to Las Vegas strictly to see a magic show is one in a million. Ever hear a group of teenagers say, "Hey! Let's go see a magic show tonight?" No, you haven't. But they just might go and get readings...Why is that? Maybe, just maybe, it's because a reading has a point. What about a movie? I can't think of a single movie that doesn't have a point.

When you go out, is it to do something pointless? I can't imagine that you do. Even watching the weather channel has a point. And believe me, more people would rather watch the weather channel than watch the magic channel...Oh, wait, there is no magic channel. Hell, you don't need a weather channel, just look out your window. Nevertheless, it has its own channel - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year of just the weather.

I'm not suggesting that magic always needs a point. I have stated many times in many posts that magic for magic's sake can be a wonderful thing. I've not changed my mind. Still, if you take an effect here and there and give it a point, it will enhance the rest of what you do. It will make everything else much more interesting. And, interesting is entertaining.

And, saying doing something meaningful with your magic is meaningless makes absolutely no sense. None.

Mike.

Michael Jay wrote:

themagicwand wrote:One can imagine Jesus walking across the water and thinking to himself, "Yes, but what's my motivation for this scene?" Sometimes magic exists just because it can.

But, Wand, wasn't it you who stated earlier on this thread that you do readings? Those readings that you do are powerful, people love them. Why? Because there is a point.

True. Very true. Sometimes though it's nice to have a bit of magic that just exists because it can. I get fed up sometimes with magicians who try to rationalise what they do as hypnosis or NLP or goodness knows what else and seem almost to be magicians without a sense of magic. I've often seen a quote that goes along the lines of "Why can't we admire a garden as being beautiful without having to believe there are fairies at the bottom of it?" Well, to me a beautiful garden is indeed a beautiful thing, but a garden with fairies at the bottom of it is a magical thing. Whether those fairies are real to me or not is irrelvant.

However I do agree Mike that having a point to the magic can give it a reason for existing, but most ordinary (ie non-magical) folk could actually care less if the card they thought of is stuck to the ceiling because they tapped into their subconscious and made it so or just because the magician they're standing next to is a very weird guy.

As for readings, that is a different kettle of fish completely. Why? Because when people see a thought of card stuck to the ceiling they know it is a trick. When they have a tarot card reading there is no trick. It is the fates talking directly to them. The magician (or psychic or reader or whatever) is merely the conduit of this cosmic wisdom. It comes from a deeper place, and that is it's point.

Very interesting discussion guys, as long as we can remain civil. We are amongst perhaps a few hundred people on the face of this planet with the wisdom, inteligence, and knowledge to discuss this kind of thing. 99.9% of the human race have no inkling of which we talk. Which is probably a good thing.

I'm not saying that the point has to be some kind of telepathic thing, it can be quite ordinary.

For example, whilst prepping to do card to ceiling, you can ask if anyone's ever had a leak in the their ceiling. Many people have. So, you look that them and say, "Do you know how I deal with it as a magician? I just do this..."

You slam the cards to the ceiling, one sticks and you say, "Works every time!"

Now, you have a point.

See what I mean?

Mike.

So , anyway. What makes a good magic show? It seems to me that two guys at each others throats a babe trying to split them up and a card on ceiling routine . Thanks for that guys. If I have any more questions I will let you know.

What makes a good magic show? Uh... Well why don't you just pick and choose from what people have said. Some people actually have made some good points. Decide who they are.