talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all,

not mentioning any names but i've seen a trick on the market(which i havent bought) and I'm pretty sure it uses a gimmick. I think i've found a new way of achieving the outcome using nothing too extraordinary.

I'm in the process of getting the bits together, but assuming it works, i wondered how this would be viewed by the magic community. Obviously it won't be a new effect but it'll by first step on a (hopefully) long magical journey.

cheers for any replies

Broadly speaking, there's nothing wrong with coming up with your own methods to do something.

However, have you actually bought the item in question? If not, some will say that you don't really have the right to perform that effect, even using a different method.

While some draw the boundaries more loosely than others, I think it's generally accepted that you won't go wrong like this:


Buy the effect, so you really do know all the workings, and can have the moral right to perform the effect.

Develop your own version properly.

If you market your version, seek permission from the creator of the effect that inspired you. I don't think thay can legally stop you from producing a different method for the same plot (there's no copyright in plots for tricks), but it's a nice gesture, and they may be happy with you to make yours.

Again, if you market your version, give credit to the originator of the effect that gave you the idea.



I know no everyone feels the same, but I don't think you could fairly be criticised for following that approach.

thanks, to be honest the trick in question is fairly pricey and the idea was to come up with a cheaper way of achieving the same outcome.

Still, looks like i'll have to save up!

thanks, to be honest the trick in question is fairly pricey and the idea was to come up with a cheaper way of achieving the same outcome.

Still, looks like i'll have to save up!

Relish wrote:thanks, to be honest the trick in question is fairly pricey and the idea was to come up with a cheaper way of achieving the same outcome.

Still, looks like i'll have to save up!

Or get in touch and discuss it with the original creator...

i would a mixture of two suggestions...

buy it first, learn everything you can (because you can save mind/leg work that way)
then contact the originator and discuss your idea/suggestion...

go from there...

in my experience, don't be afraid to approach the top names, the ones i've emailed in the past have all been very nice, educational and encouraging...

That's true (from my very limited experience), but I think it is sometimes better to have your effect reasonably far along before getting in touch with them. Otherwise, you might just look a bit silly, which could make things harder further down the line.

It will depend on what you have in mind, of course. If it's more of a handling/presentation idea, you could raise that early. If it's a gimmick, it might be worth a bit of serious R&D time before you say how your version is an improvement!

Relish writes, in part: "I think i've found a new way of achieving the outcome . . . "

Part-timer replies, in part: "Broadly speaking, there's nothing wrong with coming up with your own methods to do something.However, have you actually bought the item in question? If not, some will say that you don't really have the right to perform that effect, even using a different method."

And some will say the earth is flat.

Part-timer is right in the first sentence: There's nothing wrong with coming up with your own methods.

That's good, in fact. However, what would be even better was if you came up with your own concept of a trick!

As long as you aren't selling it, feel free to use it and forget any opposition.

Peter Marucci wrote:And some will say the earth is flat.

True, but like Gallileo (I know that wasn't to do with the shape of the Earth), if the people in power don't like your opinion, even if it's right, they can cause you a lot of hassle.

Personally, I think it's OK to use your own version of an effect, so long as it's not for profit, and especially if it's not being sold by you. I'm not sure I'd be happy using an effect that I'd reverse-engineered and getting paid for it, if I hadn't paid the originator. Then again, how many truly original effects are there?

I was really trying to offer advice on how Relish could 'bullet-proof' himself from the sniping of kangaroo courts in places like the Magic Café

That's good, in fact. However, what would be even better was if you came up with your own concept of a trick!

Absolutely!

cheers guys. The trick in question is fairly new and i think ive found a way of preparing the gimmick yourself, although this may decrease the options available.

I think i might sit on it for a while, practising it, and a few months down the line, i might contact the creator to see if they would like to release it as a reduced version of the effect. I think i'll have to wait a while just so that everyone who wants to buy the full trick buys it, so the creator wont lose out on money, but might get some more from people not wanting to buy the full version.

Part-Timer wrote:Then again, how many truly original effects are there?

That's something that I often think about. With specific reference to card magic, new effects that come onto the market are 90% certain to have handling that is merely a collection of already established sleights. Even Daniel Garcia's wonderful Ego-Change I'm not sure he can actually fully claim he came up with it - the idea that before he released that DVD nobody ever did something like that is a little absurd, and Dan & Dave Buck seem to have "borrowed" the exact same move for their Tivo 2.0 effect and not found themselves being strangled by Garcia's lawyer...

I think copyright comes down to patter and presentation rather than technique, so even if you have a new way of doing something, if it looks exactly the same as the original way, I'd consider that very similar to infringement.