talkmagic.co.uk

Seeing as we're doing the debate thing, I thought I'd throw in another topic. What is it about cards? If I could do real magic, the last thing I would do would be to pull out a deck of cards. I'm really not in to cards (can you tell?) - I do a couple of card tricks and although I own 4 books specific to cards and about 5 that have a number of card stuff in them with other stuff as well - but cards have really just never been my thing. I almost feel guilty saying that - like - I'm a magician , but I'm not into cards?
I know very few people who actually play cards and so to say that cards are common objects no longer really applies - and yet most people really seem to enjoy card tricks Why is that?

I think it comes down to what an audience expects. Some magicians say that audiences don't like card tricks, some even apologise when they perform card tricks. Most seem to think that one or two is a limit. I thik that these people are probably doing something wrong, I have never (family excluded) have anyone groan or look unimpressed when I have taken out a pack of cards, and I think this is because I go into the tricks with enthusiasm rather than an apology.

Most people know that a lot of tricks are done with sleight of hand, so they watch a trick expecting to be entertained and perplexed when they see something that is not possible occur. Cards offer a lot of scope for sleights and different impossible scenarios, so that could be why they are popular.

I agree with Nick - magic allows us mages to demonstrate that what is perceived to be logically impossible, can sometimes be possible. Cards aren't as common nowadays - you have to be in a proper local pub to find a bar with a deck of cards to hand (:lol: imagine asking for a deck in your local Yates' or Edwards!!!) - but cards are not unusual objects in as much as spectators have never seen them before. They are a known tool for us, and happen to be something that spectators are familiar with to some extent.

I mean, look at sponge rabbits - I don't know any 'normal' person that owns a set...

I think the debate might turn to: "Are people playing less with cards, and therefore, will card magic eventually become unpopular and then (hopefully) rediscovered?"

Cards are, to most people, not capable of being gimmicked. You see a huge box and a person steps inside and vanishes. It's a good trick, but you know there's likely to be something dodgy about the cabinet.

Also, people are familiar with cards, even if they don't play themselves. I can't recall the figures, but something like 100,000,000 people have seen a Bond film and James Bond plays cards. "Ocean's Eleven", "Casino", "Tombstone", "The Sting", "God of Gamblers" and so many, many more films feature card games that people know what they are.

the director of "tombstone" is staying at my hotel!

I believe that cards are associated with magic. For example, all of my publicity photos are me flourishing a pack of cards, as they are recignised as magical apparatus.

So i think that cards are associated as normal in the magic world

I don't care for cards personally. I think that magicians who do card tricks are, for the most part, a pretty boring lot (note I said, "for the most part"). As a general rule, the card guys among us are into doing serious finger flinging and pay more attention to their sleights than their entertainment skills. Not good.

However, the fact of the matter is, when someone first finds out you are a magician, they will grab a deck of cards and ask you to show them a trick. It is expected by the lay community that a magicain does card tricks.

And, in fact, as stated above, the possibilities that a deck offers in the form of effects is endless. Now, if we could just inject some entertainment into our card presentations, the deck of cards would be a gold mine for us!

Mike.

Michael Jay wrote:for the most part, a pretty boring lot (note I said, "for the most part")

You're a brave, brave man Mr J.

You can't beat a good sweeping generalisation to kick off your weekend...

Well, as a card guy who loves sleight of hand, I fully agree with you! Every magician doing card tricks that I have ever seen in a professional situation has been a very boring person. Sure they get some resonable reactions to their tricks, but only the effect, not the presentation. Many of them stick to the old tried and tested insulting jokes about the cleanliness of people's hands and the cheapness of their jewellery and rely entirely on the cards to get them their next bookings.

I think that if many of them put as much time into thinking about their presentation as they do into memorizing the terrible jokes they use they would become very good entertainers.

I believe that there are two real approaches to presentation with card magic, one is the purely preposterous, in which the magician makes out that what he is doing is real magic and weaves a story of some kind around each trick (I don't mean like storytelling magic, just an interesting justification for the effect) And the other is the entertaining personality who does card tricks, his whole persona is dedicated to entertaining the audience, not to performing a trick which will entertain them.

However, the majority of the general public will only ever have seen the corny poor performers, and will think this is what to expect from a magician, they will happily grit their teeth and seem to put up with these performers, even rebooking them. What we need to do is to go out and show people how it should be done, then maybe others will be forced to improve their performances or be driven out of business.

I (largely) agree with Michael.

I think a lot of magicians (and not just card magicians) try to get by just on the tricks themselves. I can't help but think of the anecdote I read somewhere (although I don't know if it's true). Apologies for any errors in the telling of this, the details are a little sketchy in my memor.

An amateur magician approached David Devant and said that he could do a hundred card tricks and wanted to know how many DD could perform. "About eight" was the reply.

Of course, he did them very well.

I try to have a bit of fun with magic and don't set out to be "mysterious" and I never claim to be able to do real magic. I prefer to let effects speak for themselves. If I do mind reading, I never claim ESP, nor do I deny it. Let people make up their own minds; it's more fun that way, I think.

If you can come up with a really good reason for the magic, suc as pschologically influencing people, then that's OK, but those explanations are tough to find.

One other thing. I have never seen any of the regulars here perform, but I get the impression that many of them would be very entertaining, because they have a lot of personality.

Can I be admitted to the secret area now, guys?

If you think complimenting us and dropping hints is going to help you get in then you've got another think coming, you have to offer bribes as well!

I just thought it would be a funny way of ending the post, as I had been praising people here!



Thanks for letting me in, though.

Sadly you forgot the compulsory ritual sacrifice. Very large quantities of alcohol need to be offered and consumed so we can think properly-ish (hic!)

Michael Jay wrote:As a general rule, the card guys among us are into doing serious finger flinging and pay more attention to their sleights than their entertainment skills. Not good.

That is a huge generalisation to make there, Michael! How can you say such a thing when you yourself admit to not being into card tricks?

Although I must say I aggree with you to a lesser extent. It is true to say that there are some, if not many, Card Magicians who rely on the trick and not the performance. And you are right that is not a good thing.

But to say that it is a "general rule" that the vast majority of card guys are that way inclined is a little harsh, don't you think?

To be perfectly honest I think that you will find this type of person (ie somebody who doesn't realise the importance of presentation) in every form of magic, and I also think that it is unavoidable.


To comment on the original question, I aggree with Tom. Cards are something that most people can relate to. I say most because obviously there are cultures and peoples in this world who have no concept of a deck of cards, just look at the David Blaine Special when he ventured into the jungle to perform magic for that tribe and when he did card effects they weren't particularly impressed because they had never seen anything like a pack of cards before.

The use of cards for magic could be seen as a very culturally exclusive dilema. By using a deck of cards as a tool for performance of magic you have alientated those in this world who have never seen cards before. This can be seen in other culturally exclusive magic, such as money magic effects or effects such as Healled and Sealed.

Although cards are a fantastic prop to be used and abused for the art of magic I think that we must be wary of how problematic they could be.

We must also strive to practise, in equal measure, the method and the presentation.