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What effects are recommend by him? I'm interested in Mentalism, I've been doing it for a year but haven't purchased anything but the basics. If Docc's effects are to advance for my stage in mentalism I understand. If that is the case, what would be recommend for a post beginner not quite advance Mentalist. Much appreciated!




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-Ian

Hi Ian,
Two things - firstly, I wouldn't say Doc's stuff is too advanced per se, but it is a mixed bag. Doc puts out loads of stuff, it's all absolutely hyped to the nines and only some of it is any good. So I recommend doing a lot of research (i.e. getting lots of opinions and recommendations) before splashing out any money, because his stuff isn't cheap either.

Secondly, you are 14. If you've chosen mentalism as your field of preference, I'm probably not going to be able to stop you. But if you think seriously about the image that mentalism has, do you really think you can pull off "mind reading kid"? I'm honestly not trying to belittle you, but your generation will almost certainly not respond or believe in any kind of spooky spirits type stuff, and you simply aren't old enough for it to be believable that you have "studied psychology and suggestion" to do mentalism with a psychological presentation.

Whilst people at parties, school, balls etc. may be happy to have a younger person show them some amazing card tricks, unless you were actually born to a travelling gypsy family or have a birthmark that looks like 666 or something, you really aren't going to be credible performing mentalism.

I say this because I tried a brief foray into mentalism and decided that I was too young, and I'm nearly 10 years older than you!

Anyway, I wish you luck in whatever you choose, I'm just trying to offer something to think about. All the best

I'm really into mentalism but I sort of agree with what your saying. But I'm growing weary of card magic.

A 14 year old can pull off the image of being "gifted" in some peculiar way but as such I'd suggest you find an older (as in Adult) Mage that would work with you as being a kind of "special guest" to his program... a young person that he's showing off due to this or that reason. A prime example is how the great Willard the Wizard would feature his daughters as gifted Mediums upon entering into his famed Spirit Cabinet routine (which daughter Francis still performs some 50ish years later, with her husband Glen Falkenstein).

Taking on the role of prodigy can be an excellent way of easing into both, the business and your character. The tough side of the job, especially when it comes to Mentalism, is limiting yourself to one set skill or claim and holding to that rather than running around Reading Minds and bending spoons and predicting what word someone finds in a book and running a massive gambit of other effects, genre, et al. Look at the real world of the psychic & pagan type people and how limited they are when it comes to key skills... to be believable you will have to learn this same discipline.

Docc has some great stuff out there but even as a "friend' of his, I can tell you that the majority of what he sells is based on existing as well as "common" and accessible materials/techniques He also over-hypes most of it and charges 35% too much on it... but the fact that he gets away with it time and time again is testimony to the fact that what he shares has value... though it may take you a little while to digest that value. His CELLULAR MITOSIS for an example, created a huge sum of moans, groans and complaint not because it stank but because a ton and a half of "magicians" got suckered into paying for something they couldn't figure out, that was steeped in common sense.

One of the best investments you can make on the Hilford front is "Band of the Hand" but understand that this is Bizarre Magick NOT Mentalism... a 14 year old can get away with doing Bizarre Magick far easier than he/she can the latter even though it requires a special maturation to be effective.

Mentalism is a very difficult art form for Adults to grasp and present properly fewer than 10% that attempt it, actually amount to being something. So keep that in mind as you plot your course and work at defining yourself. I'll also recommend that you study what Paul Brook has to say in ALCHEMICAL TOOLS as you move down this path, it will help as well as save you some tremendous headaches.

You might want to consider some mind reading effects that arent quite as 'heavy' as Docc Hilfords. Look at some of Banacheks stuff or even #shudder# Jay Sankeys mentalism stuff like his Boris Pocus Extremelly Mental or hemispheres set

Thanks, I like bizarre magic, but I might try to mix that with mental magic also. At this stage I'm going to experiment a bit, and figure out which best suits me. Hmmm... Alright thanks again for your help.








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Ian

Ian the Magic-Ian wrote:Thanks, I like bizarre magic, but I might try to mix that with mental magic also. At this stage I'm going to experiment a bit, and figure out which best suits me.

NO!

Figure out which best suits your audience!

If you honestly love magic then you need to honor it as well as yourself by NOT doing what everyone else tends to do... approach it as being little other than a bunch of fun tricks "I LIKE" vs. it being well thought out and staged material that FITS who I am and the kind of people I tend to perform for or (and this is important) the class of people I want to appeal to.

... that latter element is very important to weigh in that the kind of people you perform for the most probably don't have money nor the inclination to want to part with it when it comes to you and your talent. On the other hand, if you present quality routines in a matured manner that lends itself to a sense of "class" (vs. typical "Teen Age Show Off" mode) then you are more likely to find yourself working the Country Clubs, Cruise Ships and other such venues prior to turning 18 e.g. bigger money and even greater sense of networking and shifting into the corporate aspect of the biz.

Trust me... allowing the cuteness and savvy of youth to work for you while you have it, can and will open doors. Allow it to do so while you can but also be aware enough as to when to shift that image from being the intelligent or special kid next door towards the more responsible adult mode as you move into your mid and latter 20s...

... there is a reason why successful "businesses" have a 5, 10 and 15 year plan.

As to what I said in opening this reply... it is very important to understand early on that just because you like an effect does not mean it should be in your repertoire... learn and know your character and in that you will realize what effects work best for that entity and don't.

...

Besides Band of the Hand, what else is recommended? It doesn't have to be Docc Hilford, but still mentalism, much appreciated.





-Ian

band of the hand, when i reviewed it, got scurried away into the mentalists area because of a certain "something"...

i would say don't get band of the hand...dont get any of doc's stuff..

see the trouble with asking advice on forums?!

i would suggest may learn and brush up on techniques that'll give you a massive head start on others who start later...

here's my thoughts and recommendations:
swami - if you've not practiced it, go back to 13 steps, then lincoln's Sssh its a secret dvd...you'll see it in action, get some good tips and the second disc is excellent for the interviews - andy nyman and greg arce in particular...

elliot Breslers ebook - Switchcraft

Bob Cassidy's Black Box Cineman (magicbox have it for a tenner at the mo in the sales dvd bit)

if you're on a budget, annemanns 202 forces book is great...

as is The David Hoy book, bold and subtle miracles of Dr. Faust..

buy a few annemann ebooks from lybrary...

go to Rymans!

all the osterlind dvds are great...

i realise i've given you a list of stuff that'll run to around £140 (including gimmicks)....

so if you got the Switchcraft ebook - thats big enough to keep you busy for months...and its only a tenner...

i'd also urge you to take those techniques and instead of using cards or whatever, to switch in other objects and see if you can adapt them across..photos, pieces of maps...jigsaws ...that kinda thing...

good luck...

so if you got the Switchcraft ebook - thats big enough to keep you busy for months...and its only a tenner...

Definately. Beautiful piece of work, really will move you forwards a lot!

Ian the Magic-Ian wrote:What effects are recommend by him? I'm interested in Mentalism, I've been doing it for a year but haven't purchased anything but the basics.

I own almost all of Docc's booklets, along with some of his marketed effects, and a few of his other bits and bobs (ahem). I have a very mixed view of his work, but not for the usual reason. Many people say that his work is very hyped (true) and that the quality is a bit hit and miss (true, though I'd say to a lesser degree). The thing is, I hardly ever do anything by Docc! I enjoy his ideas, but they (almost) never get into my repertoire.

Anyway, listen to wise Mssrs. Browning and Farlsborough on the subject. I don't regret buying any of Docc's stuff, by the way. I really do like it!

Ian, you say that you haven't purchased anything but the basics. However, you obviously know what Banachek looks like (to the extent that you thought a picture of Harrison Ford looked like him - a resemblance lost on me!), so would you mind saying exactly what those basics are? It might help us point you in the right direction.

IAIN's suggestions are crackers. You really cant go wrong if you make 'Switchcraft' one of your purchases. A great work, and superb value.

'Black Box Cinema' is also excellent, and a complete bargain for a tenner (although I know you're in the States, Ian).

Thinking about it some more, I am going to suggest something a bit more expensive, but which I think could be the best purchase you ever made. Buy Paul Brook's 'The Alchemical Tools' and answer the questions honestly. It might end up being the best value purchase you ever make.

Or you'll hate it/ignore it.

One or the other.

I'm just looking for stuff when I go up to Hank Lee's in August. I will eventually purchase the ebooks, but until then I'm going to stick with getting black box cinema, and a new swami. Thanks for the help.

Hell... if you're at Hanks next month I'm less than two hours away... on the opposite side of the state

Ok... some have attempted to guide you away from Docc and even Bob Cassidy... I'll assume it's because they've either never studied either, or they don't have the maturity required for doing "the real work" as it were.

You asked about Docc and as I stated, Docc's stuff is far more Bizarre oriented than what I'd classify as Mentalism. He does have a neat video out for the billet novice entitled FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BILLET available through Floraco (you may check with Stevens Magic in the States they used to carry it). Elliott's SWITCHCRAFT is quite excellent especially considering how much "more" you get for the dollar ventured but if you are heading down billet alley you must study Cassidy, Allen Zingg, Millard Longman and the John Rigg's manuscripts on the Q&A.

I cover a lot of this in my treatise here at TM about becoming a Mentalist... it's a sticky post, just do a search. But be very careful about taking the advice of magicians on this topic... you wouldn't ask a carpenter how to install the plumbing in your home, now would you? Either are considered skilled trades and part of the construction industry but they are obviously different... same with Magic vs. Mentalism, which brings me back to Bob Cassidy and his little essay on said topic in his book THEORIES & METHODS FOR THE PRACTICAL PSYCHIC... said book containing some priceless points of view for those "new" to the Mentalism world... but then I tend to be old school, just like Bob, of course I'd agree with him

There's been a flood of books, tricks and theories published in the past decade by Magicians seeking to cash in on a trend cultivated by two street punks and a British cynic, each with the respective Tv spots and with the exception of Derren, NONE of them having any real background in mentalism to speak of... just material they were taught by real mentalists on their payrolls, most of which has so many holes in it a blind person can see them with their cane. When it comes to the wonderful realm of eBooks and Lulu type releases... well, what can I say, anyone can get published under such auspices, it does not mean they know what they are talking about or that they are in fact an "authority" let alone the voice of experience Pardon, this is just an area of issue that gets me a bit choked up -- pisssssed!

The bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is don't waste your money on materials that came for folks with little to no real world experience in the field you wish to learn about... not just magic or mentalism but ANY area that sparks your interests. Seek out and learn from the old timers be it via their books, videos or frequent long winded telephone chats.

I have a small handful of Old Guys I talk to regularly, most of them are people today's commercial ladder climbers have never heard of and on many levels, don't want to believe exist... far be it that there exist "inner circles" within this craft that would keep them out and unable to get their mitts on unpublished or carefully guarded secrets... BUT THERE ARE... sort of.

I don't want to go even further off topic with this issue, but I want you to see that LEARNING is an on-going endeavor and learning the subtle and nuance elements that make Mentalism (and even certain facets of magic) more "impossible" and "enchanting" demands that you not attempt to keep up with what everyone else is chasing and clamoring about; it means that you listen and RESPECT those that have been there and actually have and do, DO IT FOR REAL.

Please, if you never read another thing of Bob Cassidy's, get THEORIES & METHODS and study what he has to say about Mentalism v. Mental Magic and or Magic itself. Learn what he says and does with the Billet Read and see for yourself the power of belief vs. the stupidity of excuses and disclaimers. Discover how to run the hustle without being a charlatan and how to be a miracle maker without being sentenced to the negative stigma associated with magic and magicians.

Pardon my rambling but it's important to me that anyone new to this field get pointed in the right direction and even those that would attempt to detract from my point of view are, in certain instances, regurgitating the very things I told them a few short years ago, before their perspective got tainted by false success and the airs of being part of a good ole boys drinking club.

You'd probably like Docc's "Band of the Hand" (I do!) but it's hard to imagine real-life scenarios where you'd use the tricks. Unless you actually do get invited to parties where you're pressed to do bizarre stunts.

I can recommend Trickshop who have a lot of mentalism material for instant download at very good prices. For a start, they have a load of Annemann's stuff, including "202 Methods of Forcing", "The Book Without a Name", and two full half-hour routines (Jinx One-Man Act and One-Man Club Act).