talkmagic.co.uk

The press is simply the press, and they are going to slant a story anyway they choose. I hate to sound so negative about them, but they honestly don't care about the people they are writing about. They care about what they think the readers want to read.

As far as others not posting out of fear is a little presumptious. Most of us has suffered through the wrath of Craig and I respect his knowledge of magic and I think we already figured out I've seen him work. Although I was pretty young at the time.

As far as his harsh words? Well I certainly don't take them seriously. He uses them too often for them to have any sort of impact on me but I do read between the lines and take whatever 'advice' I can gleam from them as they are quite valuable.

Of course I have an advantage, I spent years dealing with Francis Martineau. Who is famous for his hand written text and illustrations of 3 volumes of Rice's encyclopedia of Silk Magic. He knowledge of magic is incredible but the man is just a royal pain in the *rse. I just thank my stars I don't have to deal with him anymore in fact I'm not even sure if he is still alive.

As far as the original post there is not a lot to say. Congratulations as I've already stated. And anybody who has dealt with the press knows how the story goes.

I did not appreciate your assumption of why people are not posting. It is understandable that you are upset with Craig's post but don't group the rest of us in the same fearful lump.

Bmat. Hey sound stuff there. I didn't mean to tarnish everyone with the same brush You sound like a guy who knows how it is at the heat of the moment and can see thru the fog . Cheers.
It's not all been negative.

I've taken a bit of time mulling over this thread and the knee jerk reaction by our two well meaning lads. As I've stated in the past, one should not react or act defensive if "the guilt ain't yours". So somewhere in that big pile of newly adorned ego, you know that some of what I said does apply and that's what got you upset.

Most of what I say in that post is very unspecific and deliberately so; intended for the greater whole and not the designated two.

Fact is I've probably been doing magic longer than either of you have been out of diapers and too, it's not all that unusual for newbies to not know who I am. Now rather than risking any ugliness let's just leave it to say that neither of you caught on to the point I was trying to make in that post and the "bigger picture" around things... around "the issue" (which wasn't you and had little to do with you).

I do applaud you on your fundraising... great start! Keep it up but be responsible in what you do and how the material you use can affect your fellow performers... that was the whole point of my previous post and absolutely no one is looking at that and weighing what it means when we get the lime light and what our obligations are when such rewards come our way.

BTW... when it comes to charity... most everything I do now days is charity related because of my personal circumstances. I do and have done annual book drives for literacy groups for nearly a decade now across the nation generating tens of thousands of dollars and I have no clue how many actual book placements over the years to libraries, schools, senior's homes, restpits, and hospitals. 15% of all money I generate year round is divided between the National MS Society and the MS Association of America. I've been on the front lines with AIDs related fundraisers since before it had a name and worked on Animal Welfare projects just as long if not longer, frequently hand in hand with Irene Larsen, Bob Barker and Betty White... literally!

So let's not go into the "who's is bigger" game. I'm a gruff old Carnie that loves magic deeply and don't take too kindly to things that seem "unfair" and not well thought out. I will go off on people when I don't see them "thinking" or when I detect too much "amateur hour" attitude. I do so for the sake of the craft, not to be an azzhole. Even my biggest detractors on this forum cannot deny that my "goals" when I post, are always oriented towards making people better and if possible, getting them to think. I know I don't do so in the most graceful of manners, but I've never played well with others in the first place...

You helped raise 1,000 pounds on this project... that's awesome. What are you going to do for an encore? That's not a lot of money in today's world, especially for a medical situation like Cancer. So how are you going to do the responsible thing and generate a bigger payday to that group this time next year?

How, is what you have planned and what you will be doing either as a team or independently, support your public image... what kind of image is it? Are you magicians or Mentalists? Are your "original" or just clones to one of the TV show icons?

You did a good thing but now you have to live UP TO IT and surpass it.

... that includes raising the bar for yourselves when it comes to community involvement and related support at alternative levels.

Hate me all you wish... many do... but most all end up having to digest the things I've challenged them on in order to move forward... and most ever single one of those "detractors" have apologized to me and thanked me for be such a crusty old dog that keeps nipping at them and making them grow.

Craig. The prediction it's self went as planned and it was planned, over a year of planning. It wasn't until it hit the papers that we were not happy.
I do understand where you are coming from and any money raised for charity is a lot of money, I feel.
We do have other plans and we do not clone ourselves on other magics out there especially tv ones. That we both think is just making yourself a laughing stock. We also try to create our own routines so as not to be accused of copying others(not that you said we were copying). It also makes our act original. Billy performs magic and I do mentalism and from all the shows we have done together we have got the same feedback from the audiences. "very original and the 2 performance styles compliment eachother" . We are far from perfect in our eyes and that is what drives us to keep moving forward. I think it it important to be yourself on stage, sometimes not an easy thing to do.
In answer to your question. Yes we are moving forward and up.
Cheers craig.

So somewhere in that big pile of newly adorned ego, you know that some of what I said does apply and that's what got you upset

Eh, no! We got upset at the petulant name-calling and arrogant tone of your initial post Craig.

And even if you have been performing magic since I was in diapers, that doesn't necessarily make you a more consummate performer than I! In fact, almost every effect I perform is original - and I can say the same for Paul. Furthermore, I know people that have been doing magic for decades with less knowledge and RESPECT than some other magicians who have been dabbling in our fine art for only several years.

For our opening effect the other night, we randomly selected a member of the 200-strong audience and invited them up onto stage. At this point, the audience member was on stage alone as only our voices could be heard instructing her from off-stage. She was asked to stand behind a table that had a deck of cards scattered across it. We asked her to call out some of the cards she could see just to establish to the audience that all of the cards were different (Craig - we couldn't afford to have an overhead camera here). Once this was done we asked her to focus on any card and slide it off the table. We then asked her to read out the contents of an envelope pinned to the microphone stand which revealed that we predicted which card she would chose.
Just want to stress several things here -
There were no stooges used, no direction given as to which card to chose, no mulitple 'outs', no switches, she really did have a free choice of any card and she could have changed her mind.
This effect is 100% the brainchild of Paul and I and the method is extremely clever!

Anyway, I think it's fantastic that we managed to fill a venue with 200 people when we're not 'famous'... as such. For our next show, I am sure we'll fill twice as many seats and will be able to charge twice as much for tickets.

In closing... Craig - thank you for your criti... er, I mean feedback. We'll take onboard the relevant points. I don't think we'll be working with the press again any time soon, but we will continue to develop our own effects and push forward as an ORIGINAL act - something truly lacking in the world of magic today.

PS - and thanks to everyone for the positive feedback too!

MagicBill wrote: For our opening effect the other night, we randomly selected a member of the 200-strong audience and invited them up onto stage. At this point, the audience member was on stage alone as only our voices could be heard instructing her from off-stage. She was asked to stand behind a table that had a deck of cards scattered across it. We asked her to call out some of the cards she could see just to establish to the audience that all of the cards were different (Craig - we couldn't afford to have an overhead camera here). Once this was done we asked her to focus on any card and slide it off the table. We then asked her to read out the contents of an envelope pinned to the microphone stand which revealed that we predicted which card she would chose.
Just want to stress several things here -
There were no stooges used, no direction given as to which card to chose, no mulitple 'outs', no switches, she really did have a free choice of any card and she could have changed her mind.
This effect is 100% the brainchild of Paul and I and the method is extremely clever!

Now that sounds great!

I like that sort of thing very much indeed. Derren Brown opened one of his UK theatre tours with an effect where only his voice was heard from offstage and a member of the audience was called on stage to make choices which, naturally, turned out to be exactly as per a prediction which had been in full view all the time. Obviously not the same routine or method as your opening one but the effect of just that voice instructing and offering choices but leading to the eventual reveal was just gobsmacking. It's good to show that the performer hasn't touched the props but even more baffling if they're not even present!

I agree Mandrake! Both Paul and I have seen Derren's show where he starts with an 'off-stage' effect and we really liked the concept.
From memory, I am sure he performs an ESP trick that involves the audience member selecting 1 of 4 ESP shapes?

Anyway, we thought this would be a good way to start our show! Whilst we liked the idea, we replaced the 4 ESP shapes with 52 cards and alternated lines of instruction between Paul and I to make the effect 'our own'. The method is completely different too!

Thanks for the feedback Mandrake!

I also forgot to add that (almost!) any live entertainment has to be applauded - far too often it seems that folks only expect entertainment to be brought to them via TV, Online, Game Players etc, and the concept of actually going out to a theatre or club to sit with others in an audience watching performers doing their stuff live is sadly not considered.

(OK, I'll get off me soapbox now, sorry....... )

Regarding the card effect....

I can think of at least one way that Id be able to do it.

one could even do it over the phone with teh right conditions.

Again, I agree Mandrake! Plus our format of mixing close-up magic and mentalism is pretty unique.

Aside from Derren Brown and Jerry Sadowitz, I don't recall seeing any other magic-type acts producing live shows for audiences in the UK in recent years.

Too many people are content with being hobbiests, performing for their mates down the pub, or indeed hiding behind webcams and poorly edited video to showcase their talent.

MagicBill wrote:
Aside from Derren Brown and Jerry Sadowitz, I don't recall seeing any other magic-type acts producing live shows for audiences in the UK in recent years.

Not sure what this means as many of us have live acts and perform regularly for UK audiences, just without the name recognition of DB and JS.

Sorry, I know there are a lot of working pros out there performing for live audiences! I just meant acts performing in a theatre-style environment.

bmat wrote:The press is simply the press, and they are going to slant a story anyway they choose. I hate to sound so negative about them, but they honestly don't care about the people they are writing about. They care about what they think the readers want to read.

Good job on the fund raising lads, you have my respect and admiration.

Funnily enough, I've got an experience of this which is relavent to the thread. You see, last year, my father-in-law died of cancer, God rest him, and not to go into the finer points, he spent his last days in the Marie Curie centre in Edinburgh, which is no doubt what the new Glasgow centre will be modelled on. The work they do there is fantastic.

My wife and I were planning on getting married in September, but we decided to bring our wedding forward, given her father's condition. The Marie Curie Centre let us have the wedding there, as her dad wasn't able to be moved elsewhere, and understandibly, my wife wanted her father to be there. Tragically, he died the night before the wedding, which we went ahead with in his memory.

My wife decided to do a bit of fundraising for Marie Curie due to the fantastic support they gave our family, and for all the good work they do, and decided to get an article published in the Edinburgh Evening News to promote the open /fundraising day that they were holding later that month.

The article was brilliantly written, and very sensetive. The day after, a number of nationals and periodicals called requesting the story, so they could print their own versions, including one from a paper that rhymes with 'Current Bun'. To shorten an already long story, we weren't happy with the angle they wanted to put on it, to which the reporter replied, 'we don't care, and we're going to print it anyway.'

Fortunately, my sister-in-law is a respected journalist, and very well known, and managed to pull enough strings for us to get the tabloid's article stopped at the last minute, which would have caused my wife considerable distress had it gone out, and she was just trying to raise money for a good cause too.

Moral of the story? Don't have anything to do with the tabloids, they're scum.