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I recently purchased E.I. by Luke Jermay. I am (overall) very happy I did. An "add on" to the 3 step E.I. routine is a small section on cold reading.

For those of you not familiar with E.I. it is a routine involving emotion and thought revelations. Cold Reading is not necessary to make the effect work, other methods are in play. However I can see that some cold reading "like" presentation expertise would make the overall presentation much more entertaining and "amazing".

According to LJ, there are "some" books on cold reading but there is NO SUBSTITUTE for field work, getting out there and doing it... again and again and again.

If we can agree that in the context of this discussion, cold reading means the "fishing" for information and the use of generalities to "read" someone's thoughts, what do those learned and experienced in the art of cold reading think about LJ's claims?

Also, do you use your cold reading type "skills" to enhance a presentation that doesn't necessarily require cold reading? In other words, if the thought of number is 100, just saying "your thinking of 100" is quite lame and sounds too much like a trick (in my opinion). On the other hand, perhaps saying "it's a 2 digit, no a 3 digit number, and I see zeros... 2 zeros..." seems more "real"???

LJ talks about the benefits of not being "spot on" with all your revelations, something Derren Brown seems to agree with and I imagine others do as well, it seems to make it more real. He also mentions Sylvia Brown and John Edward in the context of being absolute "scam" artists and low lifes... are they simply "good" at cold reading?

Look forward to your thoughts.

Somebody far more knowledgable than me will post soon but my thoughts.........

Its all about credibility and belivability.
By getting it one off at times kinds of proves your not cheating as such and using techniques you actually are.
No-one is perfect 100% of the time so by getting it a bit wrong, makes you human and far less scary. Lets face it if someone got it right all the time i'd be worried what else they could read from me.

As for using CR techniques when not really necessary, i personally find it helps to create your persona and re-inforces the idea that you can do what you claim to do, particularly if doing things in front of the same people at another time.
Its about showing people what they came to see. If you are watching a "mind reader" you actually want to see them reading the mind, not revelaing the answer.
If people believe you can do what you claim, they will by the nature of the human brain, accept you can do it. Which when doing more tricky things means you have the upper hand as they will already have a belief system about you in place even before you do anything.


Hope this helps a tiny bit

F x

Ive got to agree with Luke on this. I can, if the mood takes me, cold read like a goodun.

I mean seriously good. Ive shocked both me, and those watching on more than one occasion.
But ive learned how to do it entirely on my own. No books, no lectures, just by practicing, listening, and above all, failing.

Which is the way many a "genuine medium" or "psychic "starts out.
There are hundreds of thousands of well meaning people out there who are utterly convinced that they are the real deal, because they have never sat down and deliberately learned how to do it from a book.

How many times do you hear people say.. “My gran... She’s a little bit psychic"?

These are people who naturally read people, and situations, but don’t know that's what they are doing.

This might be why traditionally, gypsies are apparently better at it than others.
by not attending formal education, they hone their natural survival instincts, which in turn, makes them better readers, even thought they don’t know it.

I don't do cold reading. I am psychic. However I do use my insight in all my effects, even if it's just an aside. EG Do As I Do card routine. Afterwards, "Yes, I do feel we're quite similar. I bet you've had a few weird experiences in your time, haven't you? Very strong deja vu's, very vivid dreams etc? And you're quite intitive aren't you? You've come to rely on your gut instinct quite a lot. Tell me, what was the incident with water when you were younger? I sense a bit of drama involving you and water...?"

You get the idea. I never do a "trick" that is just a trick. My routines are always geared towards readings, and deeper revelations.

I do appreciate that those of you who aren't blessed (or rather cursed) with the psychic gift may need to dabble in cold reading, I would advise you to leave it to the experts like myself. Nothing worse than an 18 year old "E-boy" trying to explain the deep mystery of existance to a 50 year old grandmother.

All Great Stuff!

I think some very sound perspectives have been shared but I want to start on two primary points... something Paul just stated about "trusting his intuitive side" as well as what BobbyCat brings out about how to reveal a number...

Much of my technique as a Reader came about long before I'd ever heard of Cold Reading or met a Forer/Barnum styled outline. I learned to Read people the old fashioned way... by studying them as well as learning a traditional oracular system in the traditional manner -- by allowing your intellectual and more imaginative minds to communicate and work WITH one another i.e. INTUITION. This experience and those shared by countless magic minds that gave themselves permission to LEARN A SYSTEM vs. going by all the pigeon droppings we find on sell at the magic shops, all sustain that there's a bit more to it all than "some" want us to accept.

INTUITION is something we can cultivate; the more you study people (especially in conversation) the more you program your mind to connect this and that with those and thus, your subconscious starts doing the work for you and with you... it's no long a conscious thing.

Now the idea on the revelation has nothing to do with "Cold Reading"... that's just theater and showmanship but there comes a knack in which balance between this approach and others that is the "magic bullet" as they say -- the proverbial mark we must each find for ourselves, that works for us (it may not work for others in the same manner).

If I am promoting myself as a master mystic or brainiac then it makes sense that I'd sew in patter as well as delivery notes that reinforce that image as well as the illusion of my own faith or belief in what I do and observe in others, such as Paul points out in the above.


I've not yet seen Luke's piece but I know that Greg Arce has a wonderful tactic he calls "Six Degrees of Separation" which seems similar to what you describe. I love this ploy and use it to a significant degree when presenting my version of "Being There" in that it allows the audience to fill in the more specific part of the answer that I seem to be missing... I get amazingly close but I don't name things in specifics... which is one of the problems psychic's apparently have in the real world, right?

If however, you can plant just enough crumbs for the audience to follow... and it may only be one or two people from the gathered masses that catch on... then you are creating miracles in that your own denial or uncertainty brings it home, as they say.


Dale, your observations are both, priceless and right on; those who need to know how to accurately and quickly size up others or one's environ as a matter of survival are "better at it" in that they become a fine tuned instrument. I know when I've not been doing Readings for a while that I'm way off from my normal game and playing ability vs. when I'm doing them day in and out as I used to. But we can say this about most anything, can't we?

Thanks for your thoughts one and all.

I can add that LJ talks (in terms of his E.I. routine) of (ultimately) making the effect a cold reading type experiment that has the "safety net" of several guaranteed "hits" underpinning your credibility. In other words, have a "crack" see how well you can intuit info on your own on the basis you know the actual thought of subject and can look at, assess, sum up the spec face to face.

In combination, this seems like a very powerful tool. First and foremost (I think) it makes sense the way your guaranteed "hits" and cold reading fit together. Second, it seems to me the ideal way to practice one's cold reading skills, you get a head start in the right direction, plus you have the fall back position of the guaranteed hits.

The benefits of being "street wise" are well noted. Makes sense for sure. In much the same way, a car salesman needs to learn to sum up the genuine buyer from the tyre kicker and the table hopper needs to assess and differentiate the "interested and enthusiastic" from the antogonistic "what have you got in your pocket" type.

Experience would be the best way to learn these skills, therefore it seems LJ's points about there being no substitute for "doing it" when it comes to cold reading.

I was thinking taking note of the type of "predictions" that make up the daily star signs in the newspaper are a good example of "what" to say, but the "when" and to whom seems to rely on performance practice.

it depends how you want to come off too...

dont forget, doing any of this, unless framed in very specific ways - can get people to interpret you as psychic..which is ironic - as luke says at the start of EI that if there's any readers and psychics in the audience, he'll throw them out...

so, for those of you who do CR, but thing people labelling them as psychics - leave it alone, cos you'll look very silly doing this...unless, as mentioned - you're doing it under a very rigid and tightly explained framework...

or quite possibly cos you've seen derren do it on a couple of shows...

i recently told someone which side they sleep on, what they do before going to bed - and that they're wife was still awake...

some of the time, its a genuine hunch - others its hot reading as appossed to cold..as Fairy said - "Its all about credibility and belivability"

what's real though? there's some argument to be had about, well if you can read people why is that information so cloudy? why not just look straight at them, eye to eye and whhhhhoooooooooommmmmmppph!

It's 376...

its all tied up in your way of performing, how you react and interact with people...but i go back to my original bit of ramble...

why and HOW are you doing this? if you're NOT psychic or that way inclined...and how does say, psychology give you that information? you have to have an explainable framework to "Play" within..otherwise it'll jar against everything else you say and do...

my opinion only..

Or you could just say, think of a question... the answer is... 42!

Sorry just re-read hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. Couldn't resist.

IAIN wrote: why not just look straight at them, eye to eye and whhhhhoooooooooommmmmmppph!
.

Fart like an elephant?

phoenixv wrote:Or you could just say, think of a question... the answer is... 42!

Sorry just re-read hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. Couldn't resist.

That's alright, it was mostly harmless.

Russ

Context and viability are the prime key and as far as Luke wanting to toss out any Readers in his audience... I doubt it... he was brought out into the show biz world by Readers... Myself and Kenton being near the top of that list. I think he's just saying what's commercially and politically "correct" for the moment... but only for the moment. The world is waking up to the fact that assholiness has gotten out of control.

The other side of things, if you're worried about people thinking you one of those evil Psychics that lie and cheat... there are far more psychologist in prison for lying & cheating and getting folks addicted to harsh drugs than Gypsies... something to bear in mind whilst passing moral judgment around in such wholesale a manner.

Bob Cassidy, Kenton, Richard Webster, Ron Martin, John Riggs, Jon Stetson and an armada of other TOP RATED LIVING LEGENDS of Mentalism all refer to ourselves as being "Psychic" and we're mature enough to not only know what that means, but to explain it in a way to our patrons that helps them accept a more analytical perspective on things vs. the fantasy and lore that so many pass around. Sadly, those making claims that they can read folks due to study in NLP or Body Language, etc. are just as big and bold a LIER as they insist we evil and cold hearted psychic are... same holds true with our Psychological Magician types... you are applying the very same ALLUSION to the situation... same product, different flavor. But please understand the ethics as well as the obligations are one in the same.

OUR JOB as PSYCHIC ENTERTAINERS (which is what we've been known as for a very long time... even before I was born) involves the cultivation of belief from the patron. If that isn't your goal you are a magician, plain and simple! Trying to have things both ways ruins this craft and limits your ability to pull it off properly and with the optimum sense of advantage. This is especially true if and when you are "picking up on" information or vibrations from your subject... to attempt to twist things in any direction but said idea, is to castrate yourself as a performer (not my opinion alone... go back and read your Bob Cassidy and any one of the others I've mentioned)

So yes... we must entertain them but we must do so in a way that enchants and solicits that investment of belief.


True Mentalists rarely worry about those "sure things" you were talking about BobbyCat. You'll never learn to trust your gut until you jump into the pool and start doing so boldly, bravely and blindly. This is why we have so many skeptics in that few really are willing to take a leap of faith and just do it... their analytical mind is too busy distracting them and keeping them away from the golden apples.

You "Practice" Readings by doing them.... you see strangers as you wait in line at the store, you do a short palm Reading or any number of other circumstances... YOU open the door to share your impressions and in so doing, learn from their reactions. There's no cheating, no stacking the proverbial deck... there's just doing... as Yoda would say.

Craig Browning wrote: There's no cheating, no stacking the proverbial deck... there's just doing... as Yoda would say.

I would agree here. There's no susbstitute to just jumping in at the deep end - open their palm, pull out the cards, gaze at the tea leaves and just read. It's flying without a parachute and is a very liberating experience. A bit like running through Sheffield city centre naked on a Friday night.

I danced naked on the bar in Berlins a few years ago for a bottle of champaine that my mates drank as I looked for my trousers. It's a gay bar now & i'd do it again because I never got any champers.

Russ

Craig Browning wrote: assholiness

Great word Craig - that's going into Mandrake's vocabulary right now !!

russpie wrote: as I looked for my trousers

But did you ever find them?

russpie wrote:I danced naked on the bar in Berlins a few years ago for a bottle of champaine that my mates drank as I looked for my trousers. It's a gay bar now & i'd do it again because I never got any champers.

Russ

Ah, Berlins. Not called Berlins anymore, but yes, I remember it well. Or rather, I don't remember it very well at all, which is sort of the point, if you see what I mean.

I have stories that would make your toe-nails curl.