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JamesJoystick wrote:
I did an 10 minute reading of her, using just my people skills, and found out alot of stuff, things that really were just clever guesses but hitted the spot. At the end she started to cry, and wanted me to give her advice on certain things, how she should proceed with them. At this point I totally got depressed out and never did the stuff again.

Good. Making someone cry during in a reading that was conducted in an "entertainment setting" is never a good sign. You should have been more considerate.

But if we're all going to be open and honest, the only reason why so many people claim to be 'psychic' is because the term 'jedi' is copyrighted...

runs away and hides...

Fair enough if you're not a native English speaker but calling someone a bitch is offensive. Anyway that's in the past and done with now.

I think that this is one of those things that we'll have to agree to disagree on. But to be honest, me doing a routine about reading auras really isn't going to make one little boggle of difference to what they believe. If they believe that auras exist then that's what they'll believe, regardless of what I tell them. And can you really say that auras don't exist. We all radiate energy and that can change with our mood, that's a scientific fact. Perhaps an aura isn't such a fantasy after all but is instead related to that energy.

If you're going to do any sort of reading, you really do have to be thoughtful about who your subject is and what you tell them. If I was doing such a reading and got the impression that the subject's wife was going to die in a horrible car accident, would I tell him that. Of course not.

joystick - if in doubt, do not use words you don't understand..

though i reckon you're telling lies just to avoid you taking responsibility for your actions...you used the B-word in an american kinda way...

so don't worm out of it...manners on this forum...

and just so you know, dont call a woman bitch during a reading either...im sure you'd get your face slapped...quite right too...

JamesJoystick wrote:With NLP, psychology and hypnosis, the case is a bit different. Nobody is saying they have supernatural powers, but skills one could really have.

We could discuss ages about hypnosis for example, but it's a fact you can do very strange things with it as a tool. It has nothing to do with any supernatural / mystical powers, but with the way human's mind work, and what the people believe in.

You say this only because you haven't a clue about the above. You think that because they are more scientific then they have more validity than someone claiming powers. Well, they are just another way of claiming powers; as much "Bullsh*t" (as you put it) as psychic powers are, NLP and hypnosis are just as much "Bullsh*t".

Psychological techniques can be used in magic but the field of psychology is the study of mental processes and mental illnesses. Many of those claiming these "powers" have none, have never been trained in the field of psychology, and are just substituting the word "psychic" for "genius".

Do you think psychology students spend their hours learning how to make people confuse two colors and think of a particular playing card? Please. Psychology and hypnosis in clinical or research settings can achieve none of these claims, yet you think that replacing a naughty word with a politically correct one you are suddenly moral. Let's turn an eye more toward what one does with a performance, and not the vocabulary he uses.

You lost all credibility when you arbitrarily deemed "psychic" a naughty word, and labeled all such people evil liars – but raise no issues with those that claim any other training or abilities. What of a card trick where you claim to have the power to see through the cards, or blind-fold acts - are these evil too, or do they fall into your "ok" category because 1/ "no one would believe it" or 2/ "its just a lot of Bullsh*t and ruins the magic for me".

Eventually scumbag psychics (those that are actually using these techniques to fleece and steal from people) will get wise and start calling themselves “life-coaches”, “NLP experts”, “ Hypnosis Counselors”, etc. The only reason that you think psychic is a naughty word but none of the above is because the large amount of press that scumbag psychics get. They will be the same people, doing the same thing, hurting the same people, and still getting rich - but you won't notice because now they are in the politically correct blind-spot.

I think the important thing to remember here, as others have commented, is context. If one is performing in a performance situation can't we allow the audience the respect that they take it as thus? Or do we have to all assume they are complete idiots. Maybe we should go ahead and explain before the act they shouldn't use the drinking straws for any other purpose than drinking, since they are an eye-injury risk.

JamesJoystick wrote:At one point of my magician hobby, I did some tricks with cards on a bar to an older lady. She wanted to me to do a reading for her, and I said I dont do such things, and I dont believe that nonsense.
She insisted and insisted, and finally I went "okey, then, lets try it".

Then everything that followed is your own damned fault. You shouldn't have attempted something you hadn't at least studied enough to assume some level of competence in, don’t normally do, or were uncomfortable with. You gave in and screwed up big-time. This would be the same as someone trying to make up a card trick on the fly or thinking "hell, I'm a magician and magicians can juggle and do fire stunts, this punter is begging - oh why not, sure!"

I really despise those people that use the tools magicians and mentalist have spent years perfecting to fleece, hurt, and rob people. But just as much hurt can be done by people that have no clue or confidence in what they're doing. Such people can not only hurt the spectator but the image of the profession as well.

I have some serious concerns with the profession of readers and psychics. There are people that go to these entertainers with problems because they can’t afford to be going where they really ought to – a trained psychological therapist. So they go to readers instead. The good readers are those that are aware of this fact and can act accordingly. The bad ones give advice and suggestions with no awareness of what the person might do with it. However, let’s not paint everyone with the same brush. In the right setting with the right person readings can be good entertainment and hurt no one.

thats a good point actually..life-coaches...pffft...absolute charlatans..

OK, I have to clear few things.
First of all, the reading I did to that lady, was very casual, I didnt go in to any really private things at all, I found out where she lived, and what she worked with, stuff like that. She was just so sure of my skills that it triggered some emotinal state and she thought I could help with some problems she had. It wasnt about the reading, it was about her and her believes, which I encouraged by acting "psychic" (even though I told her I dont believe it myself), and that I regret much and is totally my fault.

Secondly, you can check my videos down below from the signature, to see if I speak english as my native language.

The "bitch please", was just general, don't take it so seriously.

Third, Mage Tyler doesnt have a clue I'm talking about. I am sorry, its kinda hard to discuss these things as my english aint so good, It seems hard to get the message across.

Nlp, to some extent, aint Bullsh*t. Maybe like 90% of its is Bullsh*t, but some of the original ideas by Milton Erikson really work, and techniques by Bandler with lets say, with fobia-curing really do work. So there is some stuff that there works atleast.
Whatabout human reading auras with bare eyes?? None proven.

Hypnosis has a lot of Bullsh*t around it, especially stage-hypnosis, but medical studies has been made and proven that in some cases, hypnosis does work effectly.
Whatabout auras? None proven.

Nor I did not think that "psychology students spend their hours learning how to make people confuse two colors" (sigh), but there are effective tools in psychology to use in magic as well.
Whatabout auras? None proven.

So. Quick recap. I do a magic trick, lets say, ID.
I tell the audience that by using psychology and suggestive techniques I "planted" the card I wanted to the spectator.
Good, people amaze how one can really do that by using those techniques. How weird is the human brain.

Ok, if I do the same tricks, and I tell that looking at spectators aura, I can tell which card she will choose.

Can you see the difference now?

Both claims are Bullsh*t, but the other COULD be real (think of Derrens mental forcing, 3 of diamonds), and the other COULDNT.

Other is accetable because it COULD be real, the other just SUGGESTS you have super natural (thanks daleshrimpton) powers.
And the people in the audience that believes in those things, will get more confirmation to their nonsense believes and bad thinking.

I think that this is one of those things that we'll have to agree to disagree on. But to be honest, me doing a routine about reading auras really isn't going to make one little boggle of difference to what they believe. If they believe that auras exist then that's what they'll believe, regardless of what I tell them.

How can you be sure? Millions of people started to believe in paranormal things because of Uri Geller. Why not one people because of you?

And can you really say that auras don't exist. We all radiate energy and that can change with our mood, that's a scientific fact. Perhaps an aura isn't such a fantasy after all but is instead related to that energy.

I would be curious to read studies of that you mentioned, that the energy change with our mood. Never heard of it, I'm sorry. Could you lead me to a study that verifies it?

The aura-thing (Kirlian photography) was studied alot in the 60's and 70's. Yes, people did seem to have aura on those photos but so did coins and rocks. Maybe the colors would change when the coin is feeling sad?

Ps. I totally agree what you said about lifecoaches, they are the modern day charlatans. But still, they are not claiming to be super natural.

pps. Do you think Derren Brown has done more damage with his claims than Uri Geller?

How about we draw a line under all this and return to the original topic - please?

(BTW that wasn't actually a question....... )

then dont use words you're unsure of then and stop your swearing

i hope you realise how many people paid out for NLP courses cos they want to emulate derren...

Other is accetable because it COULD be real, the other just SUGGESTS you have super natural (thanks daleshrimpton) powers.
And the people in the audience that believes in those things, will get more confirmation to their nonsense believes and bad thinking.

Actually, depending on the audience, it could be completely the other way around.

If you're around people who don't believe in psychics etc. saying that you're psychic or reading auras etc. will be accepted for them as 'true' with a suspension of disbelief during your performance. I.e they'll go along with it because they want to be entertained but they won't actually see it as 'real' any more than they will seeing a living dinosaur in the movies.

Those same people might however see NPL and hypnosis etc. as more real and actually buy into you having some serious, live changing abilities and that they should trust you because of that. With people like that it might actually cause more 'harm' using the psychological intuition, reading body language, NPL and hypnosis line as explanation for the 'mind reading' act.

This is not everybody of course and the whole thing really depends on your audience.

A question for the cold readers, no doubt many of you will have seen Derren Brown's Messiah. One of his stunts is centred around doing a "John Edward" type performance.

cold reading only?

something else?

cold reading + something else?

same question John Edward (although I understand he does a lot of pre show work). Sylvia Brown... same?

List of quality cold readers?

i hope you realise how many people paid out for NLP courses cos they want to emulate derren...

It's pathetic really, but there arn't many people who wouldnt love to be able to do what Derren looks like he does.

Wild Card wrote:

i hope you realise how many people paid out for NLP courses cos they want to emulate derren...

It's pathetic really, but there arn't many people who wouldnt love to be able to do what Derren looks like he does.

by 13 steps, and a couple of acting lessons....and you pretty much can.

I do readings purely for entertainment. I have in the past done one-to-one personal readings that lasted an hour and were a lot "deeper" shall we say, but that level of responsibility didn't sit well on my shoulders so these days it's all about putting on a good show.

However I will say that I've had plenty of readings from both psychics and mediums (shut eye very serious types) and to be honest most of them were rubbish. I know one other guy who is very good. Everyone else has been disappointing. To be honest, I'm in the top 2 when it comes to readers that I know (and I know a lot). Hope that doesn't sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet - fnar fnar.

I think being a good "people person" really helps. Most readers aren't, surprisingly.

IAIN wrote:then dont use words you're unsure of then and stop your swearing

i hope you realise how many people paid out for NLP courses cos they want to emulate derren...

I did not apologize my english for "bitch please", I know what it means.
I apologized my english for bad spelling and bad sentences.

Yeah, I'm sure people will go to NLP-classes though Derren himself stated that they are bs and nobody should ever go (Trick of the Mind -book, even Derren himself went to one course).

If you're around people who don't believe in psychics etc. saying that you're psychic or reading auras etc. will be accepted for them as 'true' with a suspension of disbelief during your performance. I.e they'll go along with it because they want to be entertained but they won't actually see it as 'real' any more than they will seeing a living dinosaur in the movies.

Sure, but what about the people who have not made their minds yet on the subject?

edit: Oh, sorry Mandrake, didnt notice your post. If someone still wants to discuss these matters with me (dont know why), start a new topic.