talkmagic.co.uk

Hi folks, new to the boards, wondering if you could help me out.

I'm doing research at the moment for a new novel (about the world of magic) and I was wondering if anyone could suggest some answers for the following questions:

1 ) what is the most dangerous magic trick (modern)?
2 ) what is the most dangerous magic trick (historically)?

3 ) who is the greatest living magician?
4 ) who was the greatest magician (historically)?

5 ) name the greatest rivalry between two magicians (modern)?
6 ) name the greatest rivalry between two magicians (historically)?

7 ) what is the trick that is the hardest for a layperson to explain (modern)? ie: trick with the greatest WOW factor.
8 ) what was the trick that was the hardest for the layperson to explain (historically)? ie: trick with the greatest WOW factor.

And finally:

9 ) if anyone has heard / read of any real life near death (or fatal) experiences about / from magicians (living or dead) that happened while they were performing a magic trick, I'd love to hear them.

Any help on any or all of these questions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again

Brian M
ThatActionGuy.com

Most dangerous is catching a bullet between the teeth.

ThatActionGuy.com wrote:1 ) what is the most dangerous magic trick (modern)?
2 ) what is the most dangerous magic trick (historically)?

As Jordan says, it's catching a bullet between your teeth. It's probably still the most dangerous, as some of the methods are not exactly safe!

Anything involving fire or explosions is also dangerous. See below.

3 ) who is the greatest living magician?
4 ) who was the greatest magician (historically)?

Opinions differ. Think about what you are asking. It's like asking who the greatest singer was/is or the greatest footballer. There isn't an answer because the question is highly subjective. If you just want ideas, then living is probably David Copperfield, dead probably Robert-Houdin. Houdini is very famous, but of course was primarily known for escapes rather than magic. On the other hand, some of his escapes were tricks! He named himself in honour of Robert-Houdin.

5 ) name the greatest rivalry between two magicians (modern)?
6 ) name the greatest rivalry between two magicians (historically)?

5) James Brown and Shoot Apollo. (That's a joke, by the way.) I'm not sure there's any great rivalry these days, but I'm not in the biz.
6) Probably the rivalries between various mind readers, who'd happily expose each other's methods.

Allen Tipton on this board is possibly your best bet for information on number 6.

7 ) what is the trick that is the hardest for a layperson to explain (modern)? ie: trick with the greatest WOW factor.
8 ) what was the trick that was the hardest for the layperson to explain (historically)? ie: trick with the greatest WOW factor.

Again, you're not asking a question that necessarily makes sense. A trick could be absolutely amazing, but actually be relatively simple to figure out, at least if you got your brain in the right way of thinking. A trick that was so complicated and devious that no one could figure it out might not have any real Wow factor at all.

9 ) if anyone has heard / read of any real life near death (or fatal) experiences about / from magicians (living or dead) that happened while they were performing a magic trick, I'd love to hear them.

There's Houdini's story (which may very well just have been a story) about him doing an escape beneath the frozen ice on a lake. When he escaped, he couldn't find the hole in the ice. Grabbing breaths from the air trapped between the water's surface and the ice, he swam in ever-widening circles until he found the exit.

Chung Ling Soo was shot dead while attempting the bullet catch trick. Quite a few others have died doing that, more than one shot by an over-enthusiastic audience member supplying their own bullet for the performer to catch! If you do some research on the trick you'll see just how risky it's been.

Quite a few people have been injured by fire in escapes involving flames or explosions, where they've not escaped in time, or have had things burn too quickly. Another tried a 'buried alive' illusion, where he'd be placed in a big hole in the ground in a plexiglass coffin, and then have liquid concrete poured onto him. The coffin simply wasn't strong enough to withstand the weight, and he really was buried.

Most of these are escapes, rather than out-and-out illusions or tricks. I tired to post a link to a thread on another forum, but it won't work right. Do a Google search for escape artist burned by explosion (no quotes).

Part-Timer-Houdini died from a ruptured liver I believe.Edit-Ok that's apparently false...

1 ) what is the most dangerous magic trick (modern)? Bullet Catch
2 ) what is the most dangerous magic trick (historically)? I'm not sure if it is as dangerous as it seems but people have stuck their body parts in boiling led/fire.

3 ) who is the greatest living magician? Matter of opinon...but probably Copperfield
4 ) who was the greatest magician (historically)? I'm just going with Part-Timer's answer here Rober-Houdin.

5 ) name the greatest rivalry between two magicians (modern)? All Magicians Vs Criss Angle.
6 ) name the greatest rivalry between two magicians (historically)? I would say Magician Vs. Spirit Talkers although I think you were hoping for something a bit more specific.

7 ) what is the trick that is the hardest for a layperson to explain (modern)? ie: trick with the greatest WOW factor. Ummm...What?
8 ) what was the trick that was the hardest for the layperson to explain (historically)? ie: trick with the greatest WOW factor. Ummm....What?

And finally:

9 ) if anyone has heard / read of any real life near death (or fatal) experiences about / from magicians (living or dead) that happened while they were performing a magic trick, I'd love to hear them. Lance Burton was doing a rollercoaster escape that went wrong, he survived though.

As PART-TIMER has already explained, most of your inquiry is a matter of perspective and too, you are talking about a very diverse field. Magic is just one thing but many and you have people who are "the best" (for an example) with playing card controls vs. billiard balls. In Mentalism you have those who are better in the role of being a Reader and doing the Q&A type acts vs. those that take on the College Professor persona in a less mystical mode, using psychology, body language, etc. as their base. both are "the same thing" but very different and separated by several different chasms.

The Bullet Catch and Water Cell Escapes (any under water escape for that matter) lead the way when it comes to dangerous stunts... but again, there is a difference between "Stunt" and "Effect" -- True Escape Work IS NOT the same thing as those who do bits like the classic Substitution Trunk or an Assistant's Revenge or for that matter the new commercial versions of the famed Water Cell & Milk Can escapes... The true escapist really does manipulate his/her way out of the restraints and though they've thought things through and planned things out, there remain a high risk for failure and that can frequently result in serious injury or death.

In the Grand Illusion realms there is far more "danger" than most would consider. Girls have "bounced" off the tip of the sword in the sword suspension illusion and broken their necks; Gay Blackstone (for one) was electrocuted when doing the Long Light Cabinet and had her back broken when the gaff for the girl to bush came loose and landed on her. That's just two examples and there are many more... big illusions are heavy, having moving parts and are very dangerous... the famed Buzz Saw or even the Copperfield Death Saw have both brought about some serious injuries over the years. But then we have those effects that involve livestock...

Whenever you introduce an animal into an effect, you introduce potential for people (usually the performer) to get hurt. I personally have more scars on my forearms and back due to cute little bunnies and beautiful parrots than I've had injuries from big cats or elephants. I also had my ribs cracked when working with an Orangutan one season... not because he was being mean but because he wanted to play... same is true as to the one and only time I was ever hurt by a big cat... she thought it was play time and swatted me. But then you have horrid tales such as the Henning situation in which a tiger got loose backstage and was stomping on, nibbling on and basically killing all the little critters Doug was using at that very same moment as part of a bit on stage (on live TV no less).

Rivalries are strange but not as pronounced now days as they were even 40-50 years ago. My mentor had a horrid feud going on for decades with Mark Wilson and Bill Larsen, Jr. and yet I have photos of the three of them drunk as skunks and arm in arm.

In the older days... the 19th and early 20th century, there were literal blood feuds and situations in which people were beaten and killed when it came to secrets. Both films, The Prestige and The Illusionist lent to us a glimpse into this era and how ugly (as well as fanatical) things could get. They also show the extremes to which the magicians of old would go to conceal a secret -- sadly we've lost that edge. Not that I'm endorsing said extremes, only that we've become whores when it comes to the wholesale availability of effects, secrets and everyone being so willing to be a clone of someone else vs. their own "man" as it were. Magic no longer has its secrets it would seem.

When it comes to "explaining" an effect, it really depends on the effect, the era and the setting. I've been to country fairs where the farmer who has a 6th grade education can tell you exactly how the mirrors are set on certain side show freaks, such as the Headless Lady and yet, I've seen that same exact exhibit in big cities near college campuses and heard professors and student alike speak with amazement as to how modern science can keep the human body alive even without the brain/head.

I've been standing beside some of the greatest minds in magic who were dumbfounded by a simple penetration mirror and yet, I've seen 5 year olds explain in detail, how the Zombie works when in the hands of some of the greatest talents to ever use one. So the question really leans upon many variables that are not readily predictable. One the other hand, I feel that most will agree to the fact that the public seems far more bewildered and dumbfounded when it comes to various aspects of Mentalism vs. magic, which is one of the reasons so many who are new to the craft want to embrace it. Sadly, most of them are far too excited and impatient to learn how to apply the nuances associated with it before showing off with it e.g. they lessen its psychological value, transforming the potentially miraculous into being little more than a dumb magicians tricks or worse (in the public mind).

yeah... what craig said!!

goodismyname wrote:Part-Timer-Houdini died from a ruptured liver I believe.

I always thought it was peritonitis, brought about by a ruptured appendix, but I am no expert.

Lance Burton was doing a rollercoaster escape that went wrong, he survived though.

He did? Is that different from the very fake one he did where it seemed to almost go wrong and he only gets out of the way with a split second to spare?

Glad to have Craig's input in this, as he's another very learned mage. I probably should have listed him alongside Allen as the board member most likely to know the historical stuff.

Part-Timer... trust me on this... it was a rupture appendix along side complications brought on by pneumonia that killed Houdini. Had nothing to do with his liver in that he was a tea tootler and rarely drank. Other than that, he was healthy as a horse.

Then again, even Lance looks at the Roller Coaster escape as one of the dumbest moves in his career.

What goodismyname shares however is a perfect example of what you and I said when it comes to the issue of PERSPECTIVE and CIRCUMSTANCE. To a pre-teen lad such as our eager young friend here, seeing things based on how they have been presented vs. the backstage truth of the fact, is something not weighed. It's like Stephen Minch encouraging the newbies of Mentalism to apologies when a friend complains about their watch stopping... you assumed credit for the PR aspect, not because it's real.

Craig Browning wrote:Then again, even Lance looks at the Roller Coaster escape as one of the dumbest moves in his career.

That's odd in a way, because it's often cited as one of the greatest magic effects ever.

But then again, I think I know what you're getting at, and shall say no more.

Thanks for the answers, guys. Keep 'em coming!

Sorry for the vagueness of the questions, but at this early stage of my research it's these more ambiguous questions that - after getting some expert answers - leads to a taxonomy that enables me to ask more specific questions.

Re. the WOW factor question, I guess I was thinking of stuff like the 'how can he fly when we've just seen him suspended in a plexiglass box' and 'how does he make a building vanish' and 'how the hell does he walk on air between two buildings in broad daylight', type tricks. (not sure what was the turn of the century equivalent?)

Cheers!
Brian M
ThatActionGuy.com

PS: talking about Chris Angel, what's the goss on him? Do other magicians hate him? And if so...how come?

PPS: Craig, if you'd be interested in corresponding privately, please drop me a line here: http://www.thatactionguy.com/contact.html - I'd love to be able to bounce some ideas off you as the novel concept develops if you've got the time.

PPPS: have any of you read the novella, 'Houdini's Last Illusion' by any chance? It's written by my co-writing partner, Steve Savile, and is a fantastic read! ( http://www.amazon.com/Houdinis-Last-Ill ... 1903889669 )

ThatActionGuy.com wrote:
PS: talking about Chris Angel, what's the goss on him? Do other magicians hate him? And if so...how come?

I think hate a bit of a strong word. The gripe quite a few people have with his television work, is that a huge amount of it, just can not be done outside the confines of a television camera.

and yet, often the public expect us to be able to match what they see on televison.

The funny thing is, when David Blaine first hit the screens, magicians didnt like him, for exactly the opoosite reason. he was doing stuff we can all do.
as an audience, magicians can be fickle bitches.

many thought that because the effect had been shown on television, they could no longer do it live because the audience had "already seen it."

but to my mind those that worried about this were, like as not, doing the same magic tricks as milions of others across the world.

I think for the rivlary between two modern magicians is by far David Blaine and Criss Angel.

why? Neither blaine, or Angell do the same type of magic. Blaine is strictly close up, and endurance stunts, whilst angel goes hell for leather and performs the huge TV Ilusions.