talkmagic.co.uk

On TM we regularly place in our description bits whether we describe ourselfs as EN, AH, SH, WP or CP,

How do you decide which you are ? How long to you think it takes to change from one level of experience and skill to another?

What defines each level of skill, as one persons AH maybe anothers idea of being SH? At what point does an EN become a AH?

Opinions, discussion and thoughts below please. (Abuse by PM )

Fairie x

a few views to get you started

http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic24737.php&highlight=

I think that a "EN" becomes an "AH" when they have learnt the basic moves required in their favourite field of magic and are now beginning to actually perform effects for family/friends etc.

It's a tough one and definately defined differently to everyone. You may think your an AH but when we see you perform, your magic is outstanding and people would certainly called you as a skilled hobbyist. And of course the opposite applies.

I have had my for AH for quite a while although recently I have become a lot more confident and well as technically better with cards and would say I'm probably a SH if technique is all that counts. But I am performing as much as I did when I thought of myself as amateur and I guess that's what counts!

To my mind you're either an amateur or professional. Skilled doesn't come into it. I've seen 'amateurs' who have blown me away with their technical skill and ability to entertain. Conversely I've seen 'pros' who were unentertaining and sloppy with their technique.

I class myself as an amateur, mostly because I'm a little bit pedantic (or so my friends tell me!). When I'm earning a living from performing then I'll be a working pro. I understand that the term amateur is not used in its strict sense in this context, but as I said, I'm a little bit pedantic.

All the best
Gary

I haven't the faintest idea what I am, which is why I haven't given myself a classification.

In some areas I'm pretty well up on things, in other areas an absolute beginner or less. (Have JUST learned how to overhand shuffle this past weekend.) This is what comes of not learning systematically, which I'm now beginning to try to remedy. Patchy knowledge always leads to trouble in the end.

I don't perform for friends and family because I have no friends and family here to perform for. If I had some, maybe I would.

In a sense, it's not very useful at all.

For example, Dai Vernon was not a professional, but he knew his stuff. As Gary says, some professional magicians are far worse at performing than some amateurs.

Also, as Robbie says, you might be very skilled in some things, while have no ability at all in others.

It's really only helpful to get a rough idea of what experience someone has. For instance, if a WP gives you advice on working a gig, you might give more weight to that person's advice than you would to tips from a 12 year old who's only just got his first deck of Bicycles from Ellusionist (black, of course).

Even then, the fact that a person is a WP doesn't mean that their technical advice will be any better than that given by an amateur. There's still room for different opinions, even among very seasoned professionals. (And boy, aren't those seasoned professionals delicious?)

I still regard myself as an AH, even after all the years I have done magic. I hope I still say something useful, every now and then.

Well, I changed my rating to SH a few months ago, primarily because I was giving consistent performances to groups in school and down the local pubs. people knew me because of my magic, and above all else, I am able to keep a group entertained through the medium of magic. I also count myself as skilled with a deck of cards, which is my main medium, as well as being fairly skilled with objects such as balls, paper cups, spoons, dice etc. So, that's my definition of a skilled hobbyist.

A Hobbyist is still hungry for knowledge and the new power that each new effect evokes...A Proffesional can sometimes get complasent and bored as his/her knowledge is so broad.

well ive had no abuse by PM (yet ) so all is well lol.

Me personally will always keep the EN next to my name.....
As long as im still searching and looking and learning i guess thats what ill always be to me, unless i can make a career out of it in which case id change it.

Amasing how perception is so indivdual isnt it...... No right or wrong answers .... well no answers at all really ....

F x

It's a really thought provoking question. I suppose none of the ratings underneath our avatars mean anything at all because we award them to ourselves. If it was a vote by other members of the forum as to who was a EN, AH or SH then it would mean something more difinitive, but as it stands I think the acronyms are just there so people can get a VERY rough idea what sort of magician you are.

For instance I'd probably take advice to heart more from a WP than an EN, not that it's necessarily correct as others have pointed out - there are a lot of professionals out there who are utterly [fill in your own blank].

It's got me thinking about AH/SH, actually. I suppose anyone can accurately describe themselves as a skilled hobbyist - since the ability to merely shuffle a deck smoothly is a "skill" - I find very few spectators can shuffle well. Walking and talking are skills, if you want to get really pedantic.

The only acronym that can't be disputed is the WP one. You're either regularly getting paid to perform magic or you're not. The rest are just abbraviations we award to ourselves based on our own confidence, arrogance or over-estimation.

can i be a SH1T?

severe hobbyist + one tongue?

mentalist
in
nightgown
guesses
everything?

IAIN wrote:can i be a SH1T?

severe hobbyist + one tongue?

mentalist
in
nightgown
guesses
everything?

queen of clubs wrote:It's got me thinking about AH/SH, actually. I suppose anyone can accurately describe themselves as a skilled hobbyist - since the ability to merely shuffle a deck smoothly is a "skill" - I find very few spectators can shuffle well. Walking and talking are skills, if you want to get really pedantic.

Good point. Though being able to shuffle is hardly a skill that all magicians have. I can't shuffle to save my life, would that make me an EN until I can? (Of course, I keep myself EN for other reasons)

It's really just how you view yourself and who you compare yourself to. I put Skilled Hobbyist because I perform at the odd show, and my magician friends tell me I'm the best of our group. That saiid, Mandrake says that he is an Amateur Hobbyist. I would never consider myself better than him because he obviously has a far greater knowledge of magic than I do. Of course I've seen him perfom, but, I believe that he is at least as good as me. So it's really just your own idea of what you classify yourself as

It was easy for me, because I earn my living from Magic. Therefore WP.

However as to how skillfull I am, or entertaining compared to others I have no idea. I do not belong to a club and have no one to compare myself to face to face all I know is I get rebooked.

I can also see from this and other forums that although I have been doing magic for 25 yrs and pro for 8 there are some far more knowledgable people than me around who are amateur.

We all love Magic - thats the only thing that really matters