talkmagic.co.uk

Hello everyone. I have found this site,through another site, which I won't name, but it is exactly the same in design, as this one is, so I suspect that both are run by the same people. A massive thanks to those individuals, who are giving their time for the love of magic. An excellent job you're doing. Thank you, very much.
I am a 41 year old entertaner. I perform close-up magic, with a good dose of humour. I have lectured, taught, held workshops, judged competitions, advised (and have been ignored-lol) and run a seasonal business(?) demonstrating and selling magic to the public. I have strong views on many aspects, on many levels of magic, and am always up for discussion (guess I'm in the right place), especially on card magic.
I will give as much input as possible and will try to be as helpful as I can, and I am looking forward to some interesting discussions. Well, I think that's an introduction (of sorts), so I'll bugge..... clear off now. Be yourself.

Hi there,

Welcome to tm.

Lee.

Nice informative introduction. Hope to get to know you better. Enjoy your stay here.

Thank you both, for your welcoming responses. I am very much looking forward to getting to know you all, and sharing nuances, finesses, adaptations and all sorts of things that we come up with at stupid o'clock and the like. I'm off to bed now, but I want to leave you with something to argue with me about (lol). I never use the classic force or the side-slip. What are your views on these moves? Do you think that I should employ them? I do have good reason for removing both of the moves from my repertoire, which I will eplain tomorrow, but I thought it would be fun to throw out a mildly controversial point of view. What do you mean, "So what!?"?-lol. Be yourself.

I think the Classic is a good necessary piece of magic. Stuff like this always comes down to personal taste. But both are really good.

Hi there Gary.

Welcome to TM.

I am not to far away from yourself here in sunny Mansfield!

Enjoy your time here

Welcome to TalkMagic Gary, I'm sure you'll find us all of some use!

Hi Gary, welcome to TM.

There's nothing wrong with not doing certain sleights in my opinion. You should do what you're comfortable doing. I never use the classic, my force of choice is the cross cut.

Hi Gary and welcome to TM. Just to set the record straight, we don't run any other forum although you will find that magic discussion forums probably share many of the same members .

I use the classic but not very often, as stated earlier i think these all come down to personal taste and what you feel comfortable with.

Welcome, Gary!

I make it a point to use whatever I can get away with, but that's just me.

Firstly, hello and thank you, to taffy, Lenoir, Lady of Mystery, Lee and Mandrake. Thank you for putting the record straight for me Mandrake, and I apologise if I created a state of umbridge in any way. I'll take this opportunity to congratulate and thank you for this site. Sorry for the assumption.
Okay. Thanks for the replies, and the response was refreshing. Yes, I agree that the bottom line would be to make your own choices, and to use what works for you. All I would add, is that we make our choices upon what we know, and upon our perspectives on matters, and my perspective on the classic force is that when you compare it to a fan spread, for a free selection, there's something else to consider. I cannot recall the amount of times that people have commented on the impressive look of a fan spread, as I offer for selection. I have even had people brought to me, to see the fan spread!!
The fan spread removes the idea of having a card forced upon somebody, and, more importantly, it is a free advertisement that you are a competent magician. First impressions last. Another thing about the classic force, which I know that magicians refuse to admit to, is that it's scruffy, jerky, unclean, awkward and sometimes extremely obvious. Oh dear, this is sounding very negative, and I apologise because that's not my aim. The classic force brings heat and steals your practise time away.
The time spent practising the classic force is time spent practising a move that is un-necessary and against the 'look' of professionalism. I don't hate the classic force, but have strong logical reasons why it shouldn't be classed as the number one force. Think about this for a moment. Skill or packet trick? Work or shirk? Predictable, set patter or Freestyle conversation? Predictable, set finale, kicker ending, killer ending, etc.? or the freedom to 'perform'? CONTROL or FORCE?
I control cards, (and am now beginning to feel that this post is becoming a book), and if you consider the differences between forcing and controlling, the most obvious advantage is that you have much more freedom with control. Secondly, it improves your skills no end. Thirdly it 'forces' you to experiment, play, adapt and improve. By improve, I mean that you make it more personal... more a part of you.
You see my problem with the classic force, is that it is hindering the progress of my fellow magicians and it is sending them down the wrong road, but because it is a road well travelled, it seems like the right road to be on. Classic force effects smell of prediction effects, to me. "He's avvin' a go at prediction effects now".lol. There's nothing wrong with prediction effects, and any stroller will tell you that more than one at each table would be too many. So, for one effect, you have to invest a lot of time on a move, that is inferior in style and methd to other methods of forcing. Do I ever force cards? Yes, of course I do, but this type of effect definitely has it's place in my performances.
I have created better forces than the classic, but this is personally biased, of course, what with me holding the classic force in not too high esteem. This said, after an hour or so together at Blackpool, over a cup of tea, or three (of course), I may be able to convince you that I am as mad as a tin of biscuits.....but as with every tin of biscuits, there's always something you like in there (??)-lol.
Hello Lady of Mystery. Your preference is the cross-cut force. A totally self-working force, that requires a little time mis-direction. If it didn't work, you would have dropped it after the first two or three times of performing it. This choice, and your use of time, tells me that you perform in a relaxed manner, with confidence and no sudden bangs (they're a definte no-no anyway). Cross-cut Vs. Classic? Cross-cut force is a knowledge, not skill move, so there is no investment of time. It cannot fail.It looks tidy. It is performed on the table. These points are no true with the classic force.
No, I am not trying to pitch forcing techniques against one and other, but am trying to give as concise a description as I can, in this place. Yes, I am doing an absolutely rubbish job of it-lol. Well, I'm going to leave the classic force alone for a while, because I'm getting this weird feeling that I'll be doing this forever. Don't I go on and on and on and on?
Mansfield. I worked near there, at a shopping centre, when I used to be in the electrical trade. Yes, it's almost as sunny as Buxton there-lol. Thank you Lenoir, I have received a response, other than, "Go away!", so I'm staying....... until Mandrake says,"Go away!". Thanks for your views Ian. I cannot and would not criticise your choices. It's as the general view of the posts hint at, which is choose what you feel comfy with and what works for you. I just can't help being difficult-lol. Thanks for the reply, Lee. Your comment is well received and appreciated. Also, it complies with the general view.
One last thing before I go away. I also said that I do not use the side-slip force, either. The reason for this is because I cannot find any logical patter that goes with it, and it has never felt right. "Tell me when to stop", isn't too awkward, but to show a card, and then push off the next one, screams 'Illogical' to me. As with the classic force, I played with it, even trying to create a one-handed method-can be done-exactly the same as a side-slip, but as deck is rolled over, block above 'stopped at card' is 'spat' out, and the top card is retained by the friction of the four finertips and the deck continues it's revolution and is placed on the table. But it's the patter with the side-slip, that I have a problem with. It interrupts the flow of language and feels contradictory.
Now you all want me to go away now, don't you??-lol. Thank you again, to all who posted, and let the transference of ideas continue. All the best.

Sorry, Ace of hades. Received your reply whilst I was typing (not surprising really). Thanks for your reply. How do you know that you're getting away with it? I am aware that you are probably being mildly flippant, but just in case you're not, my above question is very much more profound than people generally give it credit for. Swap 'get away with' for the phrase 'what works', because I'll take an educated guess that that would be more honest of you. Thank you for your modest opinion, brother.

Gary Williams wrote:if I created a state of umbridge

That's where The Archers live isn't it !

Mandrake wrote:

Gary Williams wrote:if I created a state of umbridge

That's where The Archers live isn't it !

Lol- Not sure. All I know is they taste of peaches and get you drunk (you started it).