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Hello, I know I haven't been the most active for a while, but I got an idea for a routine, and I wanted some critique/tips/ideas. =]
I just finished the book "Alice's Adventures In Wonderland" and I got an idea for a routine after it, revolving around the story.

It goes like this:
I show the Ace of Hearts, which I say is Alice. I go on to say: "This is Alice, and she decided to play a game of croquet with the queen." I rub my hand over it, and it's the Queen of Hearts. I say: "However, she made the queen mad, and the queen said 'Off with her head!'." I pick up the queen, and wave my hand, where it changes into the Ace of Hearts again. I say "Alice didn't like this one bit, so she ran away, and the queen chased her." I put the Ace of Hearts on the table, and dribble the rest of the deck on top of the cards, and when I get to the last card, I turn it over, which is the Ace of Hearts. I pick up the deck, and turn it over, where the queen is on the bottom, and I say: "Alice got away, leaving the queen to mope."

So please tell me how it is, and what you think. Also tell me if you think there could be any improvements. I have yet to field test this, but I feel it would do good.

Thanks for reading. =]

I can completely sympathize with wanting to add meaning to magic through such ideas, but to be honest, I don't think such a presentation does the magic part of the routine justice. Also, to those unfamiliar with Alice in Wonderland (like myself... ), it doesn't have any actual content. Don't take this the wrong way, but the narration by itself isn't interesting enough. To be clear, the story doesn't need to be captivating all by itself, but it should have quality enough to compliment what is happening with the cards.

The problem as I see it is that you are using the magic to tell the story rather than using a story to enhance the magic. The style of card magic that you seem to be working on is actually something I find difficult to present. There are too many places to error in presentation and lose the audience or lose the impact.

People can easily feel patronized if you try telling them a certain card is a certain character. Think about the old trick with the jacks being burglars. It's hard to take seriously at all, even if the trick is deceptive.


All that said, it's good to see people working on new, original presentations. It's one of the most important parts of magic. At least to me...

I suggest reading Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz, and whatever articles you can find of Teller describing his and Penn's process of developing new routines. I found both to be inspirational in making a presentation yours.

sleightlycrazy wrote:I can completely sympathize with wanting to add meaning to magic through such ideas, but to be honest, I don't think such a presentation does the magic part of the routine justice. Also, to those unfamiliar with Alice in Wonderland (like myself... ), it doesn't have any actual content. Don't take this the wrong way, but the narration by itself isn't interesting enough. To be clear, the story doesn't need to be captivating all by itself, but it should have quality enough to compliment what is happening with the cards.

The problem as I see it is that you are using the magic to tell the story rather than using a story to enhance the magic. The style of card magic that you seem to be working on is actually something I find difficult to present. There are too many places to error in presentation and lose the audience or lose the impact.

People can easily feel patronized if you try telling them a certain card is a certain character. Think about the old trick with the jacks being burglars. It's hard to take seriously at all, even if the trick is deceptive.


All that said, it's good to see people working on new, original presentations. It's one of the most important parts of magic. At least to me...

I suggest reading Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz, and whatever articles you can find of Teller describing his and Penn's process of developing new routines. I found both to be inspirational in making a presentation yours.

Well, I must thank you for that well thought out critique! It was very generous of you to help me out.
So do you think the trick could be done without the story, or if I should think of a new handling? =]
Also, I will have to to check out Strong Magic...yet another thing to add to my Christmas list. XD

Acording to your profile, your 14. I wouldnt do this routine at your age, BUT Dont drop it, because when you get older, you will probably be able to sell it better.

the naration is rather like Bullet points, and played correctly it could well be a good presentation. and at least your thinking about your magic, and asking people for an honest review.

better yet, your accepting what people tell you.
Many dont.

daleshrimpton wrote:Acording to your profile, your 14. I wouldnt do this routine at your age, BUT Dont drop it, because when you get older, you will probably be able to sell it better.

the naration is rather like Bullet points, and played correctly it could well be a good presentation. and at least your thinking about your magic, and asking people for an honest review.

better yet, your accepting what people tell you.
Many dont.

I'm not sure I quite understand why I shouldn't do this routine at the age of 14...

WHy wouldn't I accept it? I mean, seriously, I asked for people's opinions, and I'm gonna take them seriously, and not get all mad because people said something I didn't wanna hear. =]

Personally, I would ditch the story. There is no content there except a vague allusion to Alice in Wonderland.

I don't know about your handling, but the effect is not new. There are numerous card bits where a card or two travel around the deck.

I suggest you go out and hang out with friends. Have fun, and observe. At the moment, the only sleight of hand card trick I do is based on an experience of mine from playing poker in my high school band room. My presentation is totally mine; no one else can use it without losing congruency since it's entirely my experience.

Learn all you can about what you want to work on (card sleights, I'm guessing). This way, you'll have more tools to work with when you hit an idea for a presentation.

sleightlycrazy wrote:Personally, I would ditch the story. There is no content there except a vague allusion to Alice in Wonderland.

I don't know about your handling, but the effect is not new. There are numerous card bits where a card or two travel around the deck.

I suggest you go out and hang out with friends. Have fun, and observe. At the moment, the only sleight of hand card trick I do is based on an experience of mine from playing poker in my high school band room. My presentation is totally mine; no one else can use it without losing congruency since it's entirely my experience.

Learn all you can about what you want to work on (card sleights, I'm guessing). This way, you'll have more tools to work with when you hit an idea for a presentation.

I see what you're saying. Thanks for the tips. =D

Yes, at the moment I'm currently working on improving my card sleights. I know the mechanics of a lot of sleights, but I'm not proficient in them. =]

howxmuchxpain wrote:

daleshrimpton wrote:Acording to your profile, your 14. I wouldnt do this routine at your age, BUT Dont drop it, because when you get older, you will probably be able to sell it better.

the naration is rather like Bullet points, and played correctly it could well be a good presentation. and at least your thinking about your magic, and asking people for an honest review.

better yet, your accepting what people tell you.
Many dont.

I'm not sure I quite understand why I shouldn't do this routine at the age of 14...

WHy wouldn't I accept it? I mean, seriously, I asked for people's opinions, and I'm gonna take them seriously, and not get all mad because people said something I didn't wanna hear. =]

Easy.Its about the Oral tradition.

Traditionaly story tellers are parents, and grand parents.

this is deeply set in our psyche, so stories always come across better when told by an adult.

younger people, tend to come across better when communicating in visuals and sound bites.Moreso nowadays than ever before, because of teh way television has condensed the way they communicate to us.
Its not the performer that makes this happen, its the viewer. This is why i say that in a few years, you may well be able to sell the alice routine better. Its not a personal thing.

Personally, I would ditch the story. There is no content there except a vague allusion to Alice in Wonderland.

which is more than enough. everybody knows enough of the story to get it.

daleshrimpton wrote:

howxmuchxpain wrote:

daleshrimpton wrote:Acording to your profile, your 14. I wouldnt do this routine at your age, BUT Dont drop it, because when you get older, you will probably be able to sell it better.

the naration is rather like Bullet points, and played correctly it could well be a good presentation. and at least your thinking about your magic, and asking people for an honest review.

better yet, your accepting what people tell you.
Many dont.

I'm not sure I quite understand why I shouldn't do this routine at the age of 14...

WHy wouldn't I accept it? I mean, seriously, I asked for people's opinions, and I'm gonna take them seriously, and not get all mad because people said something I didn't wanna hear. =]

Easy.Its about the Oral tradition.

Traditionaly story tellers are parents, and grand parents.

this is deeply set in our psyche, so stories always come across better when told by an adult.

younger people, tend to come across better when communicating in visuals and sound bites.Moreso nowadays than ever before, because of teh way television has condensed the way they communicate to us.
Its not the performer that makes this happen, its the viewer. This is why i say that in a few years, you may well be able to sell the alice routine better. Its not a personal thing.

Oh...I never thought of it that way. I never once thought of the pyschological side of this routine. Well thank you, now I know to think of what other people are thinking when thinking of a routine. XD

daleshrimpton wrote:

Personally, I would ditch the story. There is no content there except a vague allusion to Alice in Wonderland.

which is more than enough. everybody knows enough of the story to get it.

Maybe it's the difference in culture, but most of my friends and i don't know much about it...

Alice in Wonderland is as much a part of the British psyche as Jack the Ripper. Even people who don't know the story know of the story. It's probably very different in the US. And sadly will no doubt be a distant memory in the UK too in a decade or two, or perhaps I'm being overly pesimistic?

I think you should ignore all the above advice and go perform the trick for people. If you have another two good tricks then sandwich this one between them then if people don't like this one, you will have another to finish with.

If you have the handling down - perform the trick. If it sinks, try it another time with different patter. If a change in patter doesn't help then rework the effect, and if that blows - DITCH IT!

themagicwand wrote:Alice in Wonderland is as much a part of the British psyche as Jack the Ripper. Even people who don't know the story know of the story. It's probably very different in the US. And sadly will no doubt be a distant memory in the UK too in a decade or two, or perhaps I'm being overly pesimistic?

No should last Tim Burton has got hold of the rights to do a movie version of it, so could well be another piece of my childhood destroyed.

sleightlycrazy wrote:I can completely sympathize with wanting to add meaning to magic through such ideas, but to be honest, I don't think such a presentation does the magic part of the routine justice. Also, to those unfamiliar with Alice in Wonderland (like myself... ), it doesn't have any actual content. Don't take this the wrong way, but the narration by itself isn't interesting enough. To be clear, the story doesn't need to be captivating all by itself, but it should have quality enough to compliment what is happening with the cards.

If you're over 8 years old and admitting to not knowing either , Through the Looking Glass (http://www.cs.indiana.edu/metastuff/looking/lookingdir.html) and/or Jabberwocky (http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html) I'd be very ashamed of myself. Then again, to be more than 18 and not know these works along side Poe and at least a bit of Shakespeare is a crime.

...if you aren't the vicitm of the American Public Education system I'd say you need to go back and do it all over again, otherwise sue your school for non-delivery of an education.

The problem as I see it is that you are using the magic to tell the story rather than using a story to enhance the magic. The style of card magic that you seem to be working on is actually something I find difficult to present. There are too many places to error in presentation and lose the audience or lose the impact.

I'm not a card man but I've watched too many others, like Eugene Burger, Allen Aukerman and Michael Ammar incorporate an approach akin to what this poster has proposed, so maybe I'm missing something or as you've pointed out, it's just a personal pet peeve.

People can easily feel patronized if you try telling them a certain card is a certain character. Think about the old trick with the jacks being burglars. It's hard to take seriously at all, even if the trick is deceptive.

Again, I've watched too many do just that. Burger and a number of others, including Sam the Bellhop, work around this premise, not to mention versions of the Ambitious Card. I don't think it patronizing in the least, people love a good storyteller... then again, they love good magic, it's just easier to find good sex vs. either of these two.

For personal reasons I'd not ever refer anyone to Penn Jillette for much other than lessons in being an A-hole and bully... but then I tend to not keep all of my taste in my mouth


Normally I'd not post to a thread of this sort but a friend of mine suggested I take a look and the first thing I encounter is someone that's apparently ill-read telling someone else where they are wrong. Sorry, but if you don't know the story in question how are you qualified to critique? You can't possibly envision the course of perspective held by the person seeking to sew said web of intrigue. In my cursory reading of things, I'd say he has a start towards decent theater (though some coaching might be required so as to properly script things and get it all blocked).

As I implied in the above, those of you that known know Mr. Carroll's contributions to the world of literature and MAGIC (long before movie special effects and video games) owe it to yourselves to get caught up on some "light" reading... especially if you have any interest in psychology. You may want to grab hold of Shelly and H.G. Wells along with a bit of Oscar Wilde as well.