talkmagic.co.uk

They're not really magicians though, are they?

I know it's difficult, because I'm not a pro or anything, but the number of people who try and give it the "it's alright mate, I'm a magician too, I've got a raven and everything."

People wonder why, when someone new pitches up to a magic shop and shows people the 21 card trick, the more experienced magicians don't suddenly open up instantly and say "oh, here you are young fellow, here's all of our best secrets and tricks!". Because of the nature of magic and the type of people who can gravitate towards it, just because someone does some magic doesn't mean they're not a tw@t. In fact, they're probably more likely to be one.

I'm really sorry about your experience Lenoir I guess the lesson is - don't just satisfy yourself that someone is "a magician" of some sorts before sharing *anything* with them; also satisfy yourself that they're not a tw@t.

Lenoir wrote:the b*stards were all foaming at the mouth to know how it was done.
Of course, I didn't tell them. I said, trustingly, "if you want to learn it...

I suppose the general lesson to be learned here is to work out a 'get out' when people ask, "how did you do that?" And of course they often do.

Depending on the effect you've just performed, answers might include, "I didn't - YOU did" (e.g. OOTW and many other potentially mentally-oriented effects); or "It's amazing, isn't it! I wasn't sure that was going to work!" and so on.

Personally I never set myself up as someone in full control of an effect. It's always a bonus when it works, or so I hope the spectator believes. This reduces the after-effect heat where people grill you about method. However, I am a rank amateur so it's easy for me to adopt this kind of persona. A pro might not want to appear so bumbling

You lied to them a lot already (during the show). One more lie wouldn't hurt.

"I used the Black Widow in conjunction with the REAL invisible palm and raise rise."

sleightlycrazy wrote:One more lie wouldn't hurt.

I like it. If you are feeling evil, point them towards some XCM sites...

Just point them in the direction of Mr Lewis and Mr Browning. (The People, NOT the guns.)

Get them to ask how something is done, then stand back a safe distance.

Cruel, but they deserve the ear-bashing they will get.
Bet they wouldn't ask you again!

Miles More Magic wrote:Just point them in the direction of Mr Lewis and Mr Browning. (The People, NOT the guns.)

Get them to ask how something is done, then stand back a safe distance.

I'd pay to watch that!

God, I'd hate to be someone coming to this forum who was new to magic.

Now, I'm not condoning the fact that these guys ripped off the Green Tapes, but I take issue with people laying into a bunch of guys who are clearly interested in magic.

We all started somewhere. We've all bought junk that we've never really used for performance because we were inexperienced and lured in by the sales pitch on the website. Also, as fledgling young magicians finding out feet, we've all done crappy performances of tricks we'd just learned out of sheer excitement at the effect.

If these guys were ruining a good effect, why not talk to them about it and tell them how they could improve it? If they've been watching you perform before they'll probably heed your advice.

How would you have felt if you were starting out in magic and asked a magician where he learned an effect, just to have him turn around and tell you to go play with your Raven? It's attitudes like that that give magicians a bad name more than a hundred guys sloppily performing Lennart Green routines.

Apart from ruining the effect, I think the main issue was that these guys didn't buy the tapes, they downloaded them illegally.

I appreciate that, I was just aware this thread had started to turn towards "Why you should never help anyone with an interest in magic".

I think the issue was first the piracy, and then then poor performance.

Having things easily reduces their perceived value - why put the (considerable) effort into understanding something, when it didn't take any effort to obtain it?

Ah, sorry, fair enough.

I know I'm always happy to help people start magic, but the answers are never what they want to hear - reading 13 steps or Annemann will not help you "be like Derren Brown", at least not without a considerable amount of real-world experience and personal effort and work.

I know that growing up I didn't have the same chances as a lot of people seem to, I certainly didn't have anyone's money to spend on me, and even if I did I wouldn't know where to spend it - I didn't have internet access until university, and I didn't know anyone who was interested in magic.

Would I have appreciated the help? Sure. Could I have convinced someone of my willingness to learn? Certainly. Did I have to find out an awful lot of things the hard way? Oh dear god yes.

Is the end result better or worse? I'm not sure, but I think I'm happier with myself this way around.

Serendipity wrote:thread had started to turn towards "Why you should never help anyone with an interest in magic".

Perhaps the 'humour' being used gave the wrong impression ! It's realistic to be wary of giving away too much and seeing your work ripped off or performed badly but that's really an individual decision based on the circumstances rather than a general rule.

My post does suggest that I was talking about people asking for advice, yet by downloading like they did, it seems they are more like secret grabbers. Doesn't matter if they have a real interest in magic, as they have no respect for either the Art or the law.

An interest to learn magic doesn't excuse illegal downloads.

That is why I was talking about THOSE people being directed to Mark and Craig.

Guess I thought it was funnier to phrase it the way I did, rather than with an explanation like this.

in the end, most magicians stop performing for people they know either cause the audience gets bored or the person rips them off

just move on and dont perform to any one you know

if they do good tricks say wow to them

and go and find a virgin audience

in the end secrets never make a magician - they make tricksters - and tricksters rip off mates, steal dvds and never become truely great

anyway, if you like some new friends, im sure we'd get along fine

abecedarianmind wrote:go and find a virgin audience

I tried to find one of these, but people got offended when I asked them...