talkmagic.co.uk

Hey,
I have recently started to study the mentalism area using linguistic techniques and suggestion. How do people practice these kind of effects? With card tricks it's easy, as you only need a mirror and a friend to practice on (of a fiance in my case). And if they know what you are doing, its even better, because if it looks faultless to them, then you have the effect perfected. It's not quite so simple with these mentalism effects, as it won't work if they know what you are up to, or if you have tried it once already.
I have been able to practice such things as a psychological card force while performing for people, but i have the brainwave deck on stand-by if needed. Other effects don't have an out like this, and I wondered if anyone has any ideas.

Ps- i have a wish/want list of magic products i want to buy next, and have reduced it down to two: The 'get nyman' dvd which has got amazing reviews, or the basil horwitz mentalism books which come recommed too. Is there anyone who has both and can recommend one?
Cheers

I don't have either so I really don't know which to suggest. If you want to get into the whole NLP, suggestion thing maybe try this book:
http://www.sleightofmind.info
I'm keen to get it - but if you get it first then you can do a nice review

When I started exploring mentalism (about one and a half years ago) I also wanted to get into the suggestion/NLP thing. I also realised it is a bit tricky rehearsing it. A lot of it relies on confidence and rapport with the audience. That takes time and experience. I skipped all the advice from people to start to the beginning - ie. 13 steps, Anneman etc. and went on this 'quest' to get everything I could on NLP, psychology & performing etc. A lot of it was a bit of a wild goose chase and I ended up spending a lot of money on stuff that I probably won't use. While some of it has been interesting and it has impacted my performance positively, I find now find myself reading Corinda and going "Wow - this is really excellent stuff".
My suggestion would be to use the stuff you have already (ie 13 steps etc.) and put together a mentalism routine. Perform it as much as you can and then slip in a bit of the suggestion stuff here and there and se e how it fits you. That way you learn to interact with the audience, build confidence, etc., and if the NLP stuff bombs - it's not too serious.
Well - that's my plan anyway..

I think taneous has just given some really excellent advice. I think I've probably bought a lot of the same stuff he has! I think it will receive about as much use.

On the subject of Basil Horwitz, I think that this is about the first time I've seen those books come up in a thread about what to buy next. This might partly be due to them not being very well known, rather than them not being good, though.

If you really are interested in suggestion work, consider getting Luke Jermay's DVD 'Skullduggery'. The production is truly appalling, but it shows Luke doing some suggestion work and was designed to counter some allegations that the effects he detailed in 'Seven Deceptions' wouldn't work in practice.

However, I think taneous really does have the right approach.

Hi Andyregs,

In response to your question eith many effects not having an out... do you not think if you ALWAYS have an out it would look a little too perfect? A quote from Andy Nyman on "Get Nyman" when asked by Marc Paul what his out was on an effect... his reply was "My out is that I fail". It is good to name effects as experiments as if they do go wrong then it doesnt really matter. I use that line when performing Mind Control by Alakazam... even though it wont fail, the audience then knows when I try other stuff it may not work and accept that. Derren Brown also says that if he gets something wrong, like a thoiught of card, he will say "Oh, I had you down as a 7 of hearts person..." then try something else. A favourite of mine at the moment is to try and force a card mentally on someone, if I am wrong then say "I need you to REALLY visualise it" then get them to write it down and get a peek or as I do at the moment, use the Breakthrough Card System.
You will find with mentalism that alot can be hit and miss, but that makes it more exciting for the audience, and by the way, remember to improvise as they dont know what to expect anyway!

Hope this has helped =)

"You will find with mentalism that alot can be hit and miss"

Bang on the mark, and some other great wordas have also been spoken. I heartedly agree with building an understanding of people whilst doing other more practicable tricks.

My main practice comes from friends and family, the point made about not being able to do the tricks if you've already failed or they know what your doing is faux. If you know those things about that person it just gives you more information and thus allows you to giude your suggestions in a way fitting to that situation. Every person requires calibration because no two are the same. It's impossible to pay attention to everything, even for the most high master of some ancient martial art. If you know that your subject will suspect gestures, use words or metaphor and mislead with gestures or vice versa.

There are plenty of practice opportunities and indeed every conversation with another human being gives you the chance to test the way in which input from you leads to output from them, get a mischievous mind on you and begin toying with the input you give, you'll begin to see the ways in which you can cause desired output.

Gaz.

AndyRegs wrote:Ps- i have a wish/want list of magic products i want to buy next, and have reduced it down to two: The 'get nyman' dvd which has got amazing reviews, or the basil horwitz mentalism books which come recommed too. Is there anyone who has both and can recommend one?

OK, I've got hold of the first four volumes of Basil Horwitz's books and skimmed the first two. His style of effect is actually quite similar to Andy Nyman's. Even reading just a few effects made me see that Andy owes a fair bit to Mr Horwitz (as Andy acknowledges).

I haven't read enough to make an recommendation either way, but will say that I don't think you'd be making a mistake whichever you went for.

On the subject of failing, I should direct you to Chan Canasta, who was one of the first TV magicians and, according to what I read, a bit of a national obsession at one stage. Chan did 'experiments' and sometimes these did not work. One of the best examples is his 'word list' ones. He gave the guests on his show a list of words and asked them to compose a sentence from them. He tried this at least twice and it didn't work right either time. He also had routines where he'd lay the cards out in a grid pattern (for example 3 x 4) and try and get a certain card selected. This also went wrong a lot of the time.

He also wrote his 'Book of Oopses', which was a sort of DIY psychological experiment book. He'd set out the criteria and ask you to choose a card from the layout shown, or words from a list, that sort of thing. He acknowledged that they might not work, in which case, "Oops." That was it; sometimes you'd pick the card he wanted you to, sometimes you wouldn't.

Cheers guys,
A lot of good advice. One of my problems, and the reason I kept my interest in magic to myself (stupid, I know!), until my fiance encouraged me to start performing for people, was down to that fear of falling flat on my backside with an effect. Im getting more confident now, and will start to put a few 'experiments' into my routine.
Thanks for the advice. It's appreciated.