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Am I the only one who hadnt seen this early footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzFrk9E_ ... re=related

I believe that was at the start of his original Torn VHS. I remember seeing it all that time ago and being absolutely speechless at his Pass!

There's no doubt he's a talented young chap, and his pass is nearly as good as mine, but still... I'm sure if Richard Pitchford were alive today he'd have a bone to pick about something or other...

queen of clubs wrote:There's no doubt he's a talented young chap, and his pass is nearly as good as mine, but still... I'm sure if Richard Pitchford were alive today he'd have a bone to pick about something or other...

They are different!!!

No I understand why he's always got a hat on.

babyshanks wrote:

queen of clubs wrote:There's no doubt he's a talented young chap, and his pass is nearly as good as mine, but still... I'm sure if Richard Pitchford were alive today he'd have a bone to pick about something or other...

They are different!!!

They are not different. The moment of magic is when you peel the card off the top instantly to make it look like an invsible change - the only difference is the clean up, which is not seen by the audience. Cardini may stroke the bottom of the deck to clean up and Garcia may turn it over in his hands, but the move is essentially the same!!

If I published the Erdnase colour change, but said that you have to use a different finger to push the card forward, it would not be a new sleight. It would be a dance on a grave.

queen of clubs wrote:They are not different. The moment of magic is when you peel the card off the top instantly to make it look like an invsible change - the only difference is the clean up, which is not seen by the audience.

Essentially the same thing happens. But the Ego is not an instant change, it is done with different fingers and the clean up is different, as you already have stated.

George Pughe’s Pass looks similar but I don't see anyone knocking that, and that dates back to 1933. And so does a similar looking move in Tricks for the Few called Passing Up The Pass. These two were published a year before the "original" Cardini Snap Change that was published in 1934.

There is also a version in Steranko on Cards (Jim Steranko), with the mechanics of this also published in Ultimate Secrets of Card Magic (Dai Vernon). There is also a version in Spectacle which later appeared in Impossible Card Magic (both Ray Kosby). There is also a version in Control Freak (Oliver Macia). There is also a version in The Daniel Garcia Project, Vol 1 (Daniel Garcia).

So why knock only Mr Garcia?

PS. Thank you Dorian Rhodell for providing most of the above history.

all i need is for someone to post the other half of the video ...

babyshanks wrote:Essentially the same thing happens. But the Ego is not an instant change, it is done with different fingers and the clean up is different, as you already have stated.

George Pughe’s Pass looks similar but I don't see anyone knocking that, and that dates back to 1933. And so does a similar looking move in Tricks for the Few called Passing Up The Pass. These two were published a year before the "original" Cardini Snap Change that was published in 1934.

There is also a version in Steranko on Cards (Jim Steranko), with the mechanics of this also published in Ultimate Secrets of Card Magic (Dai Vernon). There is also a version in Spectacle which later appeared in Impossible Card Magic (both Ray Kosby). There is also a version in Control Freak (Oliver Macia). There is also a version in The Daniel Garcia Project, Vol 1 (Daniel Garcia).

So why knock only Mr Garcia?

PS. Thank you Dorian Rhodell for providing most of the above history.

I seem to be arguing with someone called Dorian Rhodell, who is using babyshanks as a medium

Why knock only Mr Garcia? Well, I could be flippant and say that unlike Mr Garcia, all the other people Dorian helped you mention are not annoying, arrogant, whooping, grinning American gits. Or I could be honest and say that with the exception of Vernon and Steranko I've never heard of any of the other people you named, therefore it was impossible for me to knock their versions of the move.

I no longer own a copy of Daniel Garcia's DVD set, but as far as I can remember he doesn't even fleetingly credit Cardini, and that's what annoys me about his "version" of the move. Plus the fact he changed it a bit and called it Ego, which just transcends irony. Now all the YouTube NoPubes post comments on each other's dire videos complimenting the "nice Ego Change!" and it makes my blood boil, I tells ya!!

queen of clubs wrote:I seem to be arguing with someone called Dorian Rhodell, who is using babyshanks as a medium

Why knock only Mr Garcia? Well, I could be flippant and say that unlike Mr Garcia, all the other people Dorian helped you mention are not annoying, arrogant, whooping, grinning American gits. Or I could be honest and say that with the exception of Vernon and Steranko I've never heard of any of the other people you named, therefore it was impossible for me to knock their versions of the move.

I no longer own a copy of Daniel Garcia's DVD set, but as far as I can remember he doesn't even fleetingly credit Cardini, and that's what annoys me about his "version" of the move. Plus the fact he changed it a bit and called it Ego, which just transcends irony. Now all the YouTube NoPubes post comments on each other's dire videos complimenting the "nice Ego Change!" and it makes my blood boil, I tells ya!!

I was simply passing on research that Dorian Rhodell helped with. Not personally, I don't know the guy, but he has a DVD out called the Avenue that teaches Pughe's Pass, so I figured he should know the history of the move.

I agree with the lack of credits Daniel Garcia gives, but then where do the original credits go to? That doesn't excuse him, by the way And I also agree with the damn YouTube videos. I hate a vast majority of magic videos on YouTube, to the point where I don't watch any. And don't get me started when they give tutorials......... ... .. .

You never heard of Ray Kosby?? What about Fred Robinson? Surely you have seen Ray Kosby's Raise Rise? A trick that utilises Fred Robinson's Ambitous Riser--a move that is regarded as one of the hardest sleight of hand moves ever?! Shocking, for a fellow cardie (in a nice way )!

just seen Ray krosby perform raise rise... I was fooled

babyshanks wrote:What about Fred Robinson?

Anyone interested in cards needs to own the Fred Robinson book. Fact.

babyshanks wrote:You never heard of Ray Kosby?? What about Fred Robinson? Surely you have seen Ray Kosby's Raise Rise? A trick that utilises Fred Robinson's Ambitous Riser--a move that is regarded as one of the hardest sleight of hand moves ever?! Shocking, for a fellow cardie (in a nice way )!

Well nobody can know everything. I'm 25 I've only been studying magic for just under 3 years, so I think I can be forgiven for not immediately recognising every name that is tossed around. I didn't know who Peter Duffie was until the beginning of this year.

I will buy that Fred Robinson book immediately. What's it called?

you can get it from www.abracadabra.co.uk...where, rather nicely, pete duffie maintains that particular website...

oh and check out the effect "wordlock", i hear its quite good...

IAIN wrote:oh and check out the effect "wordlock", i hear its quite good...

Yeah, but I hear it's creator is a complete nob