talkmagic.co.uk

As some of you may know, I started life professionally as a children's magician before moving on to table-hopping and close-up, and eventually settling on readings and seance work.

I'm currently working on a book (or probably an ebook) the original concept of which was to help people who wanted to turn professional. The book would talk about structuring your show/routines, where to advertise, where to find work, what to expect at different kinds of bookings etc.

The original idea was to cover both kids magic and grown up table-hopping. Now I'm beginning to have doubts about the logic of including info on both kids magic and table-hopping. Would it not be better to concentrate on just one area? Would people who perhaps wanted to be kids' entertainers be put off and think "I'll not get that book coz it's about table-hopping as well and I'm not going to do that kind of magic"?

Or on the other hand would the book find a wider market by covering both areas?

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts people.

just do two smaller books...

and do them as hard copies - cut down on the dirty pirating...that way you can sell them yourself and control/mark each one...

I'm doing that for my next book i think, only a physical book, with a pdf for the extra bits - each one electronically marked and varied in a special way...

Cheers Iain. Are you using Lulu for the publishing? I'm thinking more about the Paranormal Entertainer for the "real" book thing...

IAIN wrote:each one electronically marked and varied in a special way...

Won't make any difference. PDF watermarks can be stripped, passwords can be cracked, DRM can be disabled. If it's made available in digital format, it can - and will - be stolen. If you want to significantly reduce the chance of your product being stolen, print is the best way to go - and even then, you can't guarantee it; books that have never been made available in PDF format are doing the rounds because people have sat and scanned them in a page at a time (which is why it's virtually impossible to buy The Crimp).

I'm not saying it's right, but it happens and you absolutely have to be realistic about it if you're looking to make any money in the age of digital piracy - the amount you'll make from legitimate electronic sales will be tiny compared to the lost revenue that comes with piracy, so I really wouldn't bother with electronic sales. It may be easier but it will cost you in the long run. Especially with magic, as there's an absolutely huge network of magic filesharers.

madvillainy wrote:the amount you'll make from legitimate electronic sales will be tiny compared to the lost revenue that comes with piracy, so I really wouldn't bother with electronic sales

But, if electronic sales were hit so hard, nobody would be doing it. Yet, we see increasing numbers of electronic versions of books. It's greener, more cost effective and must be profitable.

Isn't what you say presupposing that people who download a pirated copy would have otherwise made a purchase? This has been a fallacious argument used by the music, movie and sofware industries for years. I'm not saying some of these people wouldn't have bought copies, but there's no way to tell what those proportions are. You can't measure lost sales without canvassing all those who downloaded copies, so it's pure guesswork.

wandy - yes, lulu is the way to go..they have printers in the UK now so everything is a little cheaper...and they offer discounts on bulk orders, so you'll be helping potential buyers with their P&P rates too...

as for the digital thing, i am a designer of sorts by trade, so i will not be doing anything as obvious as that which has been mentioned...

as i'll be sending out the pdfs personally after the book buyer has made their purchase, it won't take me long to do whats needed with the electronic side of things, and if i ever do find one of mine on a torrent site - then i can have a look and know immediately who it is thats done the dirty...

and if i say outloud what the thing im doing is - it'll let people get round it..so i wont!

anyway - yes, lulu all the way - let me know if you want a cover done, should have some free time in august...

themagicwand wrote:I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts people.

Can't offer anything useful in terms of your decision, other than agreeing that two smaller specialised books might be more attractive than one large all-singing all-dancing tome, but please put me on the list for copies! One strong point of 'real' books, the author can autograph and dedicate the book to the purchaser thus making it very individual.

See, I'm thinking differently to everyone else here and like the idea of one bigger book that covers all areas. I think that it'd reach a larger audience and there are many magicians who do both childrens and adults magic. Even if they do only do one or the other, it's nice to read different ways that different types of people do things.

And I'd go for printing it as a book too, I much prefere books and often don't buy something when I find out that it's a PDF.

Hello themagicwand

I think I would have to agree with IAIN, these days you can not stop the piracy it is terrible that it happens. Although there is nothing nicer, than holding a real book in hand.

Those e-books make my eyes go peculiar after a while.

Could you release them as separate smaller books, however they can also be purchased as a limited edition (say 20 pieces) signed set copy (for a slightly higher price)?

Therefore those that may require just one of the books can get the one they want, whilst professionals who have a greater love for the art of magic as a whole would want the set.

I think if it was I buying a magic book, I would want the set, there are always good tips to be learnt from child entertainers. It takes a different kind of person to do it well, something a lot of close-up magicians could do with learning.

Much love and energy

tda

dont publish one book.

The world is already way to full of people becomming a kids entertainer, with a handful of cheap tricks, and hours of dire patter.

the last thing we need, if for them to pick up some cheep close up, and working for peanuts.

and... i would make a point of charging as high a price as possible for the books.

That way, only the dedicated will buy.

yeah - the high price thing is a good idea...those that are committed and really want to work it, will happily pay for it, cos they know they're recoup it in the first gig...

IAIN wrote:w
as i'll be sending out the pdfs personally after the book buyer has made their purchase, it won't take me long to do whats needed with the electronic side of things, and if i ever do find one of mine on a torrent site - then i can have a look and know immediately who it is thats done the dirty...

a) This will not work. If it did, all book publishers would be doing it. They aren't.

b) Second hand market. You sell a pdf to someone who resells it, destroying the original. This new person torrents it. You then do what? Get your lawyer to write to first person threatening to sue them. First person repies saying prove it was me. And, well, you can't really. All you can do is prove that you sold him a book with some kind of sketchy home-invented copy protection system.

You cannot ever stop piracy. Ever.

If you don't want your ideas pirated, don't publish them.

However, many studies show that piracy increases sales of physical goods. THe RIAA themselves have shown this with CDs.

However, with books, there is even MORE evidence to prove giving away your content for free increases sales.

Cory Doctorow gives away PDFs of his novels the same day they are published in hard copy and always has. He says:

"There’s nothing else that’s going to make copying harder from now on. And so, if your business model and your aesthetic effect in your literature and your work is intended not to be copied, you’re fundamentally not making art for the 21st century. "

And this is a fascinating read:

How to get rich as an author: give your work away

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksbl ... sanauthorg

and


http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksbl ... okgiveaway

If I was publishing a book today I'd torrent it myself!

Yup - two smaller books, lovely hardback printed copies. Give people something to treasure.

It would frankly put me off to see that a book on table hopping (which I'm interested in) was half full of children's magician stuff (which I'm not). I'd feel like I was having to spend unnecessary money to get to the bit I wanted. But then again, I'm from Yorkshire - the home of the Scots who got lost on the way to London and lost their sense of generosity to boot

mrgoat wrote:
a) This will not work. If it did, all book publishers would be doing it. They aren't.

you are wrong...

a) you dont know what i intend to do
b) i am a very devious mentalist
c) you should really stop talking about things as 'fact' without knowing the full story...

For what it's worth, I'd prefer two books and would certainly consider buying one on close-up. I'm interested in mentalism, close-up and cards, but only peripherally in kid's magic. I'd feel like I had more for my money by buying a book dedicated to one subject over something more general. It seems more specialised than a catch all.

It's just perception and how people think about what they're buying, what influences them and what turns them off. People won't want to buy half a book if they only want kid's magic, but they would be happy to buy a single volume on just that subject. They may think they are somehow wasting their money if it contains information they don't find interesting and that's a lost sale.

EDIT - Lulu produce nice books. I always thought they'd be cheap and nasty, but they are bound well and are professionally produced. If you go down that route, are you going to sell signed copies? Again, a book's percieved value is increased if it's been signed by the author. I'm obviously no expert on any of this stuff, but I know what influences my purchasing habits.