talkmagic.co.uk

Hi all,

I've been turning this issue over in my head for a while, and I feel that I'm not going to get an answer without asking those who are experienced in these sorts of matters.

I'm a seventeen year old student, and I'm the head of the school's magic society, who perform mainly for primary school children aged around seven years old. We also hold weekly meetings where we discuss more adult-geared, close-up tricks. The children's magic side of things interests me the least, and I have been studying card magic and mentalism for several years now, and am seriously considering a career in professional close-up and/or stage magic, as magic is my number one passion in life. I don't know, however, how easy a thing this is to accomplish.

I've read Stephen Ward's great guide on this forum on 'Performing magic to the public', and am trying to build up as much knowledge as I can about entering the field of performing professionally. I don't want it to sound like I am driven by money, but I am completely ignorant of how much money there is in professional magic, and whether or not the market is oversaturated. Without wanting to sound rude or prying, I would really love to hear people's own experiences of how they got into the professional field, and whether you found it easy or difficult, and if you think that there is money to be had in magic for someone who is competing with people who have been in the trade for decades longer.

Thanks very much!

Firstly and it will help with any replies you get...

which side of the pond are you??.... ie where do you live. No one from the uk will be able to comment much if you live in iceland.

also you say you would like to do stage/close up... what genre are you interested in. Again professional magicians might not know the mentalist scene that well....

F x

Fairy has kind of hit an important nail on the head here; are you a magician or a mentalist? What direction do you plan on heading and why?

Going pro means that you have a formal and unchanging image; you wear one specific hat and have a set program or two that fit the niche markets you are interested in i.e. the home setting (intimate programs such as the Seance) and/or a stage program. Catch is, if you want a stage act you need to consider what you do in that role and how it reflects on your other offerings (claims), allowing either act to compliment and help promote the other.

Now you're going to hear from a ton of MAGICIANS that are going to tell that's it's perfectly fine to do whatever you want; you can do hippity hop rabbits in your mentalism act if so desired and it's perfectly ok to run out and do the kiddie shows on a whim. They are right, you COULD do that, or you COULD follow the examples throughout show biz and history, set by the successful "stars" of the industry. People that focused on one area, one claim and one very specific course of travel.

Max Maven is probably one of the biggest names in Mentalism of the past 30 years but I've seen him going through rough times during those early days of his inception. But "Phil" (his real name) had a vision and a purpose, so he held out and even turned down gigs because they did not "apply" to that vision. Rick Maue has turned down shows for similar reasons but one of his best turn down examples was when an agent called him 'Looking for a mind reader'... he wasn't looking for Rick but anyone that could do a mind reading act... so Rick turned it down.

Why?

They do it for the sake of being a "designer label" product rather than being identified with the generic, off the shelf stuff. So think carefully about everything you're going to hear and how it does or does not apply to your personal vision.

As to how to "get there" I'll suggest you track down a couple of books that will help get you started.

Plan For Success by Richard Webster
The Psychic Business by Richard Webster
How to Make Money Giving Free Talks by Richard Webster
Using Your Intuitive Edge for Fun & Profit by Richard Webster
Home Psychic Parties by Richard Webster

Richard is one of the most prolific writers on Mentalism for our time and what he shares comes from hands on experience rather than theory and a magician's approach to the craft. These books will guide you towards building your business/career as well as your reputation within the region. Given your age, this is a wonder time to start laying down those little cobble stones that will pave the way to a positive destiny, but you will have to "get real" just a bit in that Mentalism IS NOT Magic. It's a kindred art form but a diametric opposite when it comes to the psychology behind it.

As to income potential, it really depends on what you are willing to do and how much of yourself you're willing to invest. You also need to consider what you are willing to sacrifice in that the life of a showman tends to be chaotic, lonely and in constant motion -- not exactly conducive to long term relationships UNLESS your partner is a solid part of the act and willing to endure the craziness it all entails. Even at that, show biz as a whole, has a very high divorce rate, so just keep that in mind as you mull over what the "price" is for making such a career move... and yes, there are other prices to be paid; just the fact that you are doing mentalism can create problems, which is one of the reasons you will find very few that are purest in this craft.

One of the things Webster and numerous others are going to tell you is that you MUST cultivate your skills as a Reader and it is wise to see that skill as your "bread & butter" asset. The reason most Mentalist gain success is because of their ability to "connect" with the patron, be it through a short two minute response from the stage or a private 30 minute Reading. This is one of the things that sets us apart from the magician and is likewise one of the practices that creates the greatest sense of rift between our kindred mage and we lowly Seers; they can't seem to understand that you can do Readings and not be a charlatan... but it really is possible, so ask those that have been around a few decades instead of those out chasing the trend.

I know I've rambled a bit, but it's only out of a desire to help you find the tools that will aid you in your initial steps along this path... and perhaps the fact that is is now 5 a.m. and I still can't fall asleep so I'm being punchy

With the Reading issue however, you will be able to generate extra cash almost anytime, anywhere rather than having to wait around for a call from your agents or investing hundreds of dollars and countless hours doing mailings that only deliver a 5% return if you are lucky... five in every hundred people you contact MIGHT book a party with you within 6-12 weeks of your contact with them. On the other hand, if you walk into a Coffee House and just comment with one of the workers about their Aura or noticing a line in their palm, etc. You will generate interest and suddenly have others wanting you to Read them... a Sunday afternoon easily becoming a sound source for pulling in that extra cash.

Admittedly, there are some situations where it doesn't work out that way, but more than not, you will win. From there, you have the first domino falling, which leads to the next (either a home party or another Reading of greater length... referrals) and so other dominoes begin falling into place, paving your way.

Yes, a club/stage act will help, but even on that front it isn't the book test or a drawing duplication that is going to make them love you. Rather, it's your ability to connect -- to render seemingly accurate Readings to the patrons and staff of the establishment and do so with assured confidence... which brings us to another route of course -- Hypnosis... but that just another part of the greater game that can be added or even embraced further down the line, after you've learned some stage management skills (controlling those patrons that participate on stage with you) and become more confident as a showman.

OK, I've said enough and hopefully it all makes sense.

Thanks very much Craig, that's definitely given me a lot to think about.

To clarify: Firstly, I live in London. Secondly, I am most interested in mentalism and would like to pursue that and to create a stage act. I do still, however, value close-up card magic highly, but I am aware that mentalism and close-up/cards do not always coexist well, particularly if I want to create one formal image for myself, and to maintain credibility as a mentalist as opposed to someone who just uses 'sleight-of-hand'. As much as I could see myself performing close-up magic table hopping at events or as a short intimate show, I think that I will leave that idea aside and concentrate on mentalism.

I might look at those Richard Webster books soon as they look like just what I need. I am actually reading into hypnosis at the moment as you suggested might be a future possibility, although I agree that it should probably be left out of the act until I have gained confidence as a performer.

Ok, let me help you with some clarification with things and do understand that I'm one of those guys that detest the use of playing cards within mentalism for the most part. HOWEVER, I have exceptions to that rule in that some of the playing card based material that's come out recently or even been around a while, can be presented in very effective ways BUT that's based on the performer his/her self and their ability to present the concept as well as the foundation they've laid prior to introducing said scenarios.

I will use cards from time to time but whenever possible I will replace the playing card with other items such as index or business cards, photographs, post cards, etc. just to stay away from the association said items have in the mind of the public and the fact that playing cards are typically tied to gambling and magicians -- it's something I feel best avoided where possible in that I'm lazy and hate swimming against the current.

Now when it comes to your close-up you need to understand that Mentalism is, by its very nature, a stronger allusion when presented at the intimate level vs. stage and theatrical demonstration, the latter being viewed as "commercial". There's no real problem with that except for one thing; it robs us from making that connection with our patrons. Aside from that it's just like any other facet of show biz; long, long hours and lots of time on the road.

What I prefer when it comes to stage, are intimate rooms that seat no more than maybe 500 people, preferably much less... like 150ish. That's why I do a lot of stuff in Libraries and Book Stores as well as the Coffee shops like Star Bucks.

Night Club gigs will generally involve Comedy Clubs which means you must present material that's much more up-beat and "silly" vs. the more serious side of things. Comedy Clubs want acts that make people laugh their butts off; the they laugh the easier it is to actually get paid by these clowns.

The other type of club you'll find (though they are still a rarity) is the Supper Club (and similarly, the Country Club dinning areas). I much prefer these in that they aren't as demanding for the comedy side and allow you to get away with routines that feel a bit more "real" vs. the Mental Magic type material you would need in the other setting. But this is the perfect situation for a Couple's act, Hypnosis Show, etc. (I'll encourage you to catch the Jon Stetson show whenever it comes to your area, he's a prime example of what is current and popular to this and the corporate market... he's also one of the busiest and highest paid in our industry).

Within the framework of the Supper Club target, you also have non-profits and community groups such as the Lion's, Elks, Knights of Columbus, Chamber of Commerce and so forth, all of which have monthly meetings and are always on the look out for novel shows that can be part of an annual dinner or some such event. Though the pay can seem nominal these are the people within each community that make things happen. If they like you they can and will help open doors on your behalf so trod lightly and with a sense of "grace" when dealing with such.

The Home Party Market is going to give you a taste of both elements if you work it right.

The way I work a Home Psychic Party is that I warm everyone up with a 20-minute very interactive demonstration based on the party theme, be it Astrology, Numerology, etc. This gives you a "stand-up" situation in which you can work on new material and develop routines for your larger shows. After this warm-up guest come back to a private area for a brief 5-10 minute Reading based on the night's theme... of course a big chunk of the time they are with you involves a sales pitch for the book and merchandise you have available that also fits the niche.

Though you could use an effect or routine with these post show Readings, bits like the Richie Technique or my own Pseudo-Psychic Gambit, it's not necessary nor recommended. While these two and several others that I'm aware of, deliver a very solid and legit Reading, I'm of the belief that they can prove overwhelming to some and come off as being too much of a good thing, which breeds suspicion. So you need to approach this carefully.

I'm rambled sufficiently for now, hope what I've outlined here proves practical.

Thanks again Craig

What I prefer when it comes to stage, are intimate rooms that seat no more than maybe 500 people, preferably much less... like 150ish. That's why I do a lot of stuff in Libraries and Book Stores as well as the Coffee shops like Star Bucks.

That's the sort of ideal audience size I had in mind, certainly nothing larger than that.

I think that university [fingers crossed] will be a good opportunity to get experience performing for an audience. As much as I would love to perform a show in my final year of school, I am worried that it would be too difficult to get the audience to believe in my 'abilities', e.g. picking up on body signals and making psychological based predictions etc., as it is easier to get a stranger to believe in your abilities than it is to do so for people who have known you personally and for longer.

fishistheice wrote:Thanks again Craig

What I prefer when it comes to stage, are intimate rooms that seat no more than maybe 500 people, preferably much less... like 150ish. That's why I do a lot of stuff in Libraries and Book Stores as well as the Coffee shops like Star Bucks.

That's the sort of ideal audience size I had in mind, certainly nothing larger than that.

I think that university [fingers crossed] will be a good opportunity to get experience performing for an audience. As much as I would love to perform a show in my final year of school, I am worried that it would be too difficult to get the audience to believe in my 'abilities', e.g. picking up on body signals and making psychological based predictions etc., as it is easier to get a stranger to believe in your abilities than it is to do so for people who have known you personally and for longer.

Not if your consistent....

If you start now sowing the seeds of possible ability later, i believe you can convince those who know you, providing you are prepared to follow your claimed beliefs at all times and not make claims to the contary...

Say for example you want to go down the psychic route... You start by making small claims .... "oh i had my palms read the other day and they said they saw psychic intuition... i dont know about that, but there was that time i knew blah was going to happen before it did..."
this oculd then lead to making hits out of possible co-incidences.... ie if someone phones you always say oh i was just thinking of you or i was about to phone you.... Combine that with a few esoteric books thrown around the home to help convince your close friends etc...

Just my opinion... but i think if you are going to have "abilities" where better to hone your back ground story then on those who know you well....

F x

Fairie... you've come so far in a year's time Big Hugs!

She is correct and given your age, it is a very smart way to make things believable.

The biggest mistake (in my opinion & observation) so many young people make when it comes to mentalism, is that they are impatient and want to do it all way too fast. A 17 or even 20 year old, hasn't the life experience let alone sufficient formal education time to substantiate the popular claim of using NLP, Body Language, et al. It's simply not believable or readily digested by the common person as being plausible and plausibility is one of the bigger, more important "secrets" to success when it comes to Mentalism.

A person in their mid and late teens could however, develop an interest in the paranormal form the rationalist point of view or that of a New Age type person or even the role of philosopher and Hermeticist. Having this foundation core of interest, carrying around books on the subject that are from the general market (such as you'd find in any local library or book merchant vs. magic shops), but also reading and absorbing both, the ideas and language from those resources; you are after all, grooming yourself so as to become a believable member of said community/niche.

There are always exceptions to the rules and if you are lucky enough to have an older (as in your father's age) chum that does regular stage shows in your region, partnering up with him to do a short 10-15 minute two-person feature as part of his show, is an excellent route of travel as well. It gives you stage experience without all the pressure of doing special moves and so forth. As Farie will point out to you, there are methods that make such an act very easy to learn and pull off.

As to those Baby Steps and Farie's suggestion, you may want to pick up books on divination systems or even get a Tarot deck and start learning how to do Readings based solely on that system and free of all the magic & skeptic's based B.S. for now. See for yourself just what the legit side of these systems is capable to doing before you add in the more biased theories and "explanations".

Don't get me wrong, some of the information you will find in the magic world on the topic of Cold Reading has validity and serious application. But it's best to not have a head full of such data up front. That's always been my position when it comes to this topic and tends to be so with most of the top workers out there.

The reason I'm suggesting this as one of your early steps, is that it does fit into what Fairie has suggested as a "process" along side what would be accepted and expected for someone your age and just discovering said paths of interest. As one that first started doing professional Readings at Psychic Fairs, etc. when he was in and around your age, I can assure you that it is a good thing. Just by honing this one skill there are many venues that will become available to you through which you can earn some added income while getting the opportunity to experiment with new material and "grow" as a psychic or expert persona.

Anyhow, enough of my rambling. Put your best foot forward and get the ball rolling

You're totally right FairySnuff and now probably is the best time to start building up an image/reputation among the people that I know.

A 17 or even 20 year old, hasn't the life experience let alone sufficient formal education time to substantiate the popular claim of using NLP, Body Language, et al.

Totally agree, which is a difficulty that I am facing at the moment because that is the route which I wish to go down more - i.e. the psychological route rather than the more psychic/paranormal path, which you suggested might be easier to demonstrate a plausible interest/knowledge in.

I think I might set myself the aim of organising a small stage show this year at school in one of the smaller venues [100 people-ish], perhaps for a charity event or something.

You must become what you wish others to see. Watch Ceaser Milan the dog whisperer. Walk the walk, talk the talk learn all you can and project the energy that is needed. Become the pack leader and it will not take long at all for others to follow, (people follow, as it is the path of least resistance) Don't worry if people know you or not, leave the past where it is. Start working in the now. Be a mentalist if that is the path you want to follow, don't pretend to be one.