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I really feel the need for some kind of hope, or God.

The tally is 8 people, close friends and family who have died this year, the 8th coming just a few hours ago.

Does anyone else really feel the need for Religion in their lives, but just can't convince themselves?

Ah there is a whole philosophical debate about religion being a crutch.

A deacon friend of mine keeps telling me he is waiting for me to need god. I find that trite.

I am sorry you are having a rough time coping with life. Everyone has a rough time coping with life eventually. This does not diminish your experience it simply means you are not alone which it sounds like you feel.

Please reach out to someone be it a priest, a preacher, Therapist, friend, family.

Therapist (being one) is always the preference they have the most resources but anyone willing to help is a good place to start.

--Infy

As a Christian of many moons, I can say that if a Faith works for you then go for it but please don't expect miracles and don't expect to find all the answers, you're equally likely to find more questions and areas of doubt. Most Priests I know are honest enough to admit they have some doubts - it's a healthy outlook and one which has been suppressed, or at least frowned upon, for many years in organised Religion. One of the most memorable experiences of recent times was sitting with a Priest full of doubts (and several glasses of Gin!) and listening to his ramblings - no lack of Faith but always seeking further answers was taking it's toll on him. Any of the 'faiths' which assure you they have the definitive answers and are the only way should be avoided like the plague - they're more likely to be cults rather than religions. Bear in mind that the mainstream Religions are huge corporations and, as they live in the real world, use similar processes to Coca Cola, McDonalds, Microsoft and so on to raise money and further the cause - this aspect can be very disillusioning. Infighting, Politics and dirty tricks campaigns are in there as well!

By all means scout around, check out different faiths in your locality, see what your gut feeling is about them. As suggested above, also run these thoughts and ideas past others outside any faiths. Social workers, Doctors, Teachers and so on will have a very good grasp of life as will friends and family and you'll find your problems are far from unique, there may be a lot of mileage in just talking through your issues with all of these people and getting balanced view based on all of them.

Good morning Lenoir;

My condoleances for your loss.

Belief in god(s), divinity etc... does not equate to belief in organized churches in my opinion. Much of the debate I feel is often wasted because of this.

Look at your hand and the near infinity of small particules that it is made of. Look up above you and the infinity of stars, constellations and what not. Where are we between these micro and macrocosms?

For me this is the Big Mystery - god, this feeling of wonder that we are one with everything and everyone around us.

Well, until they try to park in my space anyway.

Take care Lenoir.
LP.

I turned to Buddhism a few years ago.

In the end, I decided not to take a Dharma name or join any club - mainly at the recommendation of the local Buddhist Centre leader who understood his own teachings well enough to know that religion can be just as problematic a crutch as any other. He also understood my reservations about organised religion and did nothing to change my views on the matter.

I still meditate, though, and take a lot of support from Buddhist teaching. I just haven't subscribed wholesale to anyone else's worldview.

So yes, I've been there, and needed some form of spiritual support. But at the end of the day, what you need is a more constructive perspective at a time when everything seems rotten.

So while I wholeheartedly advocate looking into philosophies that might help you, I'd advise you to think long and hard before making any organised religion a part of your identiy.

As a complement to your soul searching, I also strongly recommend This book Not all of it will apply to you, but get it and read it cover to cover. I did, and that's when my perspective really started changing for the better.

Hope that helps,

Pete

I'm really sorry to hear about your loss.

I think everyone who has ever spent time thinking about it has their own reasons why they do or don't believe in god or some sort of higher power. From my own experience, it was the sudden death of a close friend when I was about your age that took any semblance of faith in the divine away from me but I know some of my friends had the exact opposite reaction.

If you're trying hard to convinvce yourself that you should believe in god but you're not succeeding, then maybe you don't believe in god. And not all religions have one specific divine being in them anyway. One of the first books I read after I turned away from the Christian faith was the writings of Chuang Tzu, which is a collection of writings mainly attributted to the Daoist philosopher of the same name. Whilst in Daoism there are no gods per se, they do believe in the Dao which I guess you could describe as a mixture of the force from Star Wars along with luck and the natural flow of the universe. It's not really a belief I still subscribe too but many of the stories without the book resonated with me at I time when I was very emotionally vulnerable and I think many of the more philosophical ideas still make up mu own outlook in life.

I'm not saying that you answer lies there or in fact in any specific other place, but you can find meaning in all sorts of places, you just have to look, and the actual journey of looking is what is rewarding. If you don't believe in god, then don't force yourself; but if the idea of a divine being looking over you gives you comfort and it feels right, then maybe that is the path you should choose.

Just remember this though, for all the fighting that goes on these message boards about different beliefs and what is true or not, we are all people with the same emotions and experiences and we'll try to help you and console you and give you the best advice we can.

Lenoir,

I'm sorry. It's awful to lose someone close and it inevitibly makes you consider mortality and all those other philosophical questions around it. As Infy said though, you aren't alone, even though it may feel that way.

Grief often raises those questions most people don't like to think about or discuss. It's ok to wonder and to ask why these things happen though. To gain answers about life and death from any religion requires a leap of faith. To answer your question...Yes. I was brought up in a religion. However, I left many years later because it failed to provide the answers I needed. Do I still believe in God/god/gods/etc. Yes, but I no longer look in that direction for answers.

I think you have to seek the hope and the answers you need to get you through this sadness and sense of loss you are feeling from any source that works for you. Talk to those people closest to you. Be open and honest about how you feel and don't be afraid to ask for help. Ask the difficult questions and you might be surprised by the answers people give you. Others who are grieving may take comfort or solace from sources you may not have even considered and which might help you too.

Take care,
Wishmaster

This is one of one of my favourite passages and it really speaks to me about life ands its preciousness without the crutch of invisible sky blokes:

We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively outnumbers the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

Here is another respect in which we are lucky. The universe is older than 100 million centuries. Within a comparable time the sun will swell to a red giant and engulf the earth. Every century of hundreds of millions has been in its time, or will be when its time comes, 'the present century.' The present moves from the past to the future, like a tiny spotlight, inching its way along a gigantic ruler of time. Everything behind the spotlight is in darkness, the darkness of the dead past. Everything ahead of the spotlight is in the darkness of the unknown future. The odds of your century's being the one in the spotlight are the same as the odds that a penny, tossed down at random, will land on a particular ant crawling somewhere along the road from New York to San Francisco. You are lucky to be alive and so am I.

Lenoir wrote:I really feel the need for some kind of hope, or God.

The tally is 8 people, close friends and family who have died this year, the 8th coming just a few hours ago.

Does anyone else really feel the need for Religion in their lives, but just can't convince themselves?

I don't have any answers. I just wanted to offer my condolances.

Interesting read guys, thank you all for your support.

My condolences too. The pain will ease in time; meanwhile, you've had some good advice here.

For a belief in god without the ties of organised religion, have a look here:

http://www.moderndeism.com/index.html

Barry

A few years ago my Dad passed on. He'd been terminally ill for a while so while it's easy to say ' It wasnt a suprise ', of course it always is.
At the time i was reading The God Delusion by Dawkins. As a child i'd been quite the little Christian. In fact if my older brother ever wanted to upset me he knew the best way was to say something horrible about God.

As i grew up and started questioning things, you could say i turned into an Agnostic. It was a desire to hear things from all sides that made me purchase and read The God Delusion. I wasn't even 50 pages in when my Dad died. About two weeks later when i came back to reality, i picked up the book again but reading it made me very upset.

Despite Mr Dawkin's scientific and therefore cold attitude towards all things spiritual, i decided i didnt want to hear it. The idea that my Dad would simply cease to be, rather than going on and getting something he deserved, which in this case was an end to the suffering he had here on earth, was one i wasnt prepared to entertain.

Fast forward a few years to here, and I'm still Agnostic, still questioning, and still holding on to an idea that this isn't it. Im not disappointed with life at all, i think its wonderful. I just think that the Buddhist idea of Karma isnt good enough for giving people what they deserve. And im not speaking of punishment for evil, im thinking more of reward for good.

Im sure, Lenoir, you'll find strength from somewhere. A human's capacity for strength in the most stressful and upsetting of situations is quite astonishing. I'd simply say follow your own path, and i can tell from your posts on here that you do that anyway, and it will bring you the answers you desire.

What drew me to Buddhism wasn't any idea of Karma. It was the fact that the goal is to be the best you. Not the best Buddhist, the best Christian or whatever.

In a way, it put me in exactly the same place as Grimshaw - especially after examining the more humanist sides of Buddhism. Steven Batchelor, in his book 'Buddhism Without Beliefs', coined the term, 'Proudly Agnostic', which is now a label I wear with pride.

The argument is that there might be something more. I hope there is. But I don't know what it is, and I won't allow speculation, worry or fear about it to interfere with the job of experiencing how amazing life is, and being the best, most compassionate me I can be here and now.

To my mind, any ideology is secondary to that.

pcwells wrote:The argument is that there might be something more. I hope there is. But I don't know what it is, and I won't allow speculation, worry or fear about it to interfere with the job of experiencing how amazing life is, and being the best, most compassionate me I can be here and now.

To my mind, any ideology is secondary to that.

Amen.

I've sworn to never allow myself to become a "religious" person but rather, a man of faith. Religion is a man-made venture that borrows (selectively) from ancient (typically) traditions and related scriptures. It is dogmatic and unyielding for the most part. However, being a spiritually attuned individual is an entirely different story

The more I study and observe the less I'm able to say just what it is that's I KNOW to be out there, if it's a god, goddess or an entire armada there of, I can't say. I only know that there is something that is beyond my mortal scope of comprehension; it could even be the higher, evolved aspect of my very self we hear about in certain Buddhist teachings. Regardless, it is a source of inspiration and guidance and even if the rationalists would like to claim I'm talking to myself when I pray... that's perfectly fine with me, so long as that side of the self is empowering me by words of wisdom and a higher truth.

I've seen and even experienced the miraculous too many times over the years to accept the contention that "God" does not exist. At the same time, I've seen and experienced enough to know that the more gnostic mode of perspective is probably closer to the over-all truth when it comes to such things and that our mortal ability of obtaining genuine enlightenment and salvation comes as the result of self-introspection and a near perpetual search for greater knowledge and expressions of excellence; not through monastic study but the fields of science and high-mind exercise/disciplines that allow us to see beyond the illusions Religion itself imposes on us.

I do not mean to belittle your losses my friend, merely to help clarify the issue a bit based on what I've learned over the years.

Having faith in something is very much needed in our lives, especially during difficult periods. When AIDS first hit the States I was but a 20ish year old kid living in Hollywood, watching helplessly as friend after friend deteriorated and died a most horrible and lonely death. 30 people in a two year period; it was a time that seriously challenged my faith at all levels. It was however, the Hopi Shaman that helped me find the peace and resolution to things that I needed so that I could help others. It is from such trials of Adversity that both, faith and strength are redefined and born.

Know peace and brite blessings my freind