talkmagic.co.uk

A J Irving wrote:I forgot to explain exactly why today is International Blasphemy day but this link does a better job than I ever could: http://blasphemy.ie/2009/09/30/campaign-for-a-secular-irish-constitution/comment-page-1/

Is out then?

€25,000 is a bit pricey for having a pop at someone's imaginary friend!

Jesus baby raping Christ that's ridiculous. I guarantee if there was no religion the 9/11 terrorists would have attacked for some other reason. Honestly it's a nice idea, but saying 'Imagine there's no religion' is like saying 'imagine there's no anger.' You can not and should not get rid of a fundamental part of our thinking process even if it can be destructive. Which I feel I must add it isn't, not always, religion has it's good side too (but you'd never hear a hardcore atheist talk about it) and I'm tired of the two schools of thought 'Follow the bible or Koran or the noble eightfold path and everyone would be happy' v.s 'Just be logical and everyone will be happy.' Hurling slogans and special days at the majority of the public (the don't know don't care crowd) as if anything going to be solved but more anger and slogans. There is no one answer to the human thought process, religion works for some, science works for others and some like a bit of both. It's a wave and a particle.

sounds like Jesus talk to me

Harry Guinness wrote:I wish I could blaspheme. Unfortunately in Ireland it is illegal for me to do so.

(okay it hasn't been fully ratified yet but the point still holds!)

Hi Harry. You might be too young to remember, but when the Public Order Act was brought in in the early nineties it had provisions (which thankfully were never used in this way) which could have made political comment in a comedy club illegal. For a while I would burn a copy of the Public Order Act at my gigs to make the point that it was oppressive legislation.

When the new blasphemy law comes into effect I will begin burning a copy of the act at my shows. I invite you, and every other performer in Ireland, to do the same. And I am going to keep on making cracks about the church. Tony.

Tomo wrote:Here's my current favourite:

Oh dear. There is nothing wrong with faith and no reason why it has to sit in opposition to scientific method. Such a view is, quite frankly, narrow minded. By faith I don't mean a blind, unquestioning following of authority, but a firm conviction based on experience. Let me give you a personal example. I am a Buddhist, generally following one of the Tibetan models. In Buddhism (and other Eastern mystical traditions) one encounters the idea that one can attain to higher states of consciousness through meditation. These states are called Dhyana. Dhyana states start off fairly coarsely rising through the different levels until you come to the formless dhyanas (the spheres of infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness and the sphere of neither perception nor non perception). I have no experience of the formless dhyanas but I have no doubt in my mind that they exist. This is because I know people who have and, more importantly, I have had experience in some of the lower Dhyanas. Faith on the basis of experience.

Faith is the basis of all spiritual endeavour. In fact, in the Buddhist tradition faith, which is a rough and fairly poor translation of the word sraddha (Sanskrit), is said to be present in every single positive mental state. Again, this is not a blind faith, but one that rests on one's own experience, which is the only thing one can rely on when it comes to spiritual matters.

Incidentally, I wholeheartedly approve of and International Blasphemy Day and would like to offer this: Avalokitesvara wept!

The pope's hat is silly!

Gary Dickson says that faith and science should not be in opposition, then goes on to say that faith is not blind, but based on personal experience. He then goes on to describe his personal experience - which is completely different from everyone elses personal experience. That is the problem - that is why science will always be in opposition to faith.

Science is based in no ones personal experience. It is based on theory, backed up or modified by experimentation.

I have no problem with people having their own personal faiths - as long as they keep them to themselves. I have a big problem with public displays of religion - from blowing up planes right down to grace before meals.

I don't impose my athiesm on others, and I do not accept others imposing their theism on me. Yet I see the Irish government bringing in nonsense blasphemy legislation, and our national broadcaster broadcasting a a call to prayer twice a day every day. Enough is enough.

I don't know why, but I'm always surprised to find discussions about faith/religion etc on a magic forum. It just seems so... unconnected.

I just explain to my more religious friends that god spoke to me in a dream and told me she didn't exist.

A bit like the king of france (says bertrand)

Ted wrote:I don't know why, but I'm always surprised to find discussions about faith/religion etc on a magic forum. It just seems so... unconnected.

well Jesus was a magician and although his ITV crucifixion special was highly over-rated it is his water to wine thing that became a classc staple of magic

I'm reading a really rather splendid book at the moment called "Supersense". CLICK HERE FOR DETAILS

It explains how a rational scientific mind and a superstitious mind co-exists within all of us, to greater or lesser degrees. And the ability to imagine "what if..." in a scientific manner is also the same as the ability to imagine "what if there's a ghost under the bed". It's a natural human thought pattern. And you can't have one without the other.

People who believe in the paranormal or religion can obviously also have an appreciation for science. And those amongst us who believe (there's that word) they are rational are also superstitious to a greater or lesser degree. After all, how many scientists will have a lucky pair of shoes they always wear when making a presentation or similar? How many will knock on wood, cross their fingers, or wear their pulling pants when out on the razz? Quite a few I think you'll find. And that's before you get into all the scientists who actually have a faith of some description or other.

Being rational and having supernatural belief exists in all of us whether we like it or not. It is a natural by-product of being human. Having the imagination to wonder why apples fall downwards instead of upwards is the same process as imagining that that creak you heard on the landing at 3 in the morning was a ghastly ghoul come to suck your brains.

I expect to be flamed. Indeed, one could say I believe there may be flamage.

Supersense is a great book. Very readable. Very well researched.

OK, one last blasphemous image before Mandrake gets back and shouts at us:

The Irish blaspheme all the time. The difference is though that they always feel guilty about it.

What I like about Jesus is how he did what the f___ he wanted to.