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Now, I know there was a discussion on the Zapped manuscript earlier in the month (which got me thinking about the effect again!) but I wanted to start a new thread because I'm after some advice....

Am planning to close my set with this at an upcoming performance and was just looking for any performance stories people might be willing to share, tips on the induction (based on the alternatives in the manuscript, etc), spectator management, etc...

I know Mandrake was fortunate enough to be involved when Paul Daniels(!) performed this and shared some of his experiences with me (Expect another private message soon, sir ) and I wondered if anyone else would be kind enough to share some of their prep/performance experiences with me.

Probably best to do this via private message as it will be difficult to discuss anything without exposure!!!

Many, many thanks,


Sean

Klangster1971 wrote:Now, I know there was a discussion on the Zapped manuscript earlier in the month (which got me thinking about the effect again!) but I wanted to start a new thread because I'm after some advice....

Am planning to close my set with this at an upcoming performance and was just looking for any performance stories people might be willing to share, tips on the induction (based on the alternatives in the manuscript, etc), spectator management, etc...

I know Mandrake was fortunate enough to be involved when Paul Daniels(!) performed this and shared some of his experiences with me (Expect another private message soon, sir ) and I wondered if anyone else would be kind enough to share some of their prep/performance experiences with me.

Probably best to do this via private message as it will be difficult to discuss anything without exposure!!!

Many, many thanks,


Sean

I think the thing about this routine is that people do as they are told because of who Daniels is. They are scared to not obey, because he will put them down.

I'd be very interested hearing your experiences after the event.

Have you done any work in the past that uses the same method?? I wager the secret is supreme confidence they will do as you want them to.

I have a card reveal where three speccies all shout out the name of a card someone else chose that uses the same technique (effectively) and that works really well. But, I am not making them look foolish, which Electric Chairs kinda does...

Good luck!

Speaking from inexperience, I think the group dynamic holds a lot of sway over the routine, and by the sound of it, damian's effect, too. If you have six people up on stage, no-one will want to be the odd man out.

damianjennings wrote:people do as they are told because of who Daniels is. They are scared to not obey, because he will put them down

My experience was quite the opposite. Paul was friendly all the way through, plenty of ad lib jokes of course and some aimed at the people on stage but very funny and very forgiveable. If he'd been at all threatening I'm sure both volunteers would have just walked off the stage .

Mandrake wrote:

damianjennings wrote:people do as they are told because of who Daniels is. They are scared to not obey, because he will put them down

My experience was quite the opposite. Paul was friendly all the way through, plenty of ad lib jokes of course and some aimed at the people on stage but very funny and very forgiveable. If he'd been at all threatening I'm sure both volunteers would have just walked off the stage .

Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I didn't mean they felt THREATENED.

It's more that whenever anyone, ever, has tried to do a joke, be a smartarse, or otherwise move the spotlight away from Paulypoos, he very quickly puts them in their place with a putdown. "I do the jokes" etc.

Because he has spent x years on telly doing that, everyone in the audience, and particularly the two people he gets on stage, are too scared to not comply with what they need to do for the trick to work.

My point, for what it's worth, is that someone with the known persona of Daniels pulls it off well. And someone who is an unknown may not have the same effect on the audience.

If that makes any more sense.

It's only me talking out of my bottom anyway.

Agreed, he's very much in charge and there's no doubt about it whatsoever but in the sense that you're part of the act, not just a dummy. Audience management is probably why he and other first class entertainers are at the top.

its called social compliance eh...

just like you can do a psuedo-suggestion set of routines if they initially except you for what you claim to be...so one good demo therefore gives you the "in" to then continue...and become more outlandish as you progress...

and therefore you can do a non-hypnosis hypnosis show...kenton's ultimately under is a good book on that particular subject...

and if you've not read it "telepathy in action" is kinda in the same ball-park...but much much more...

It has nothing whatever to do with Paul Daniels being famous. It is an old trick used by magicians not so famous such as Ricky Dunn, Maurice Fogel, and others. YOu have to have the nerve and the command of the stage to do it-that is all. Incidentally Paul Pacific does it and he may or may not tell you about depending on what mood he is in.

Incidentally my gut feeling is that Sean should not close with the trick. Put it somewhere else in the act. I have no idea why. Just call it insinct honed over experience. If I was in the mood to figure out why I feel this I would do so. I can't be bothered analysing it though so you will just have to take my word for it.

And you don't want volunteers cluttering the stage anyway as you say goodbye.

mark lewis wrote:It has nothing whatever to do with Paul Daniels being famous. YOu have to have the nerve and the command of the stage to do it-that is all.

So, Rev Lewis, are you suggesting that a stupid layperson would behave in exactly the same way if they were helping Daniels do this trick to 'A N Other magician' that they had never heard of/seen before?

Obviously you need nerve and command of a stage. That's a given. My feeling is that these silly specs are MORE scared of daniels than of someone they don't know so are even more willing to do as they are jolly well told.

Just for the record, I have performed The Electric Chairs in the past in my concerts. My style on stage is NOTHING at all like Paul Daniels'. I am a warm and friendly entertainer and NOBODY in my audience would feel like I would attack them or joke at their expense. I think that it's BECAUSE I'm so warm on the stage that it all works as effectively as it does. Paul Pacific

Well, that certainly sparked a discussion

On reflection, I think I may need a different closer - one of my outlandish predictions should suffice. I think Mr Lewis is quite right when he alludes to the old adage "you should always take your final bow alone!".

I'm still edging towards the electric chair routine though - I think/hope I've got the presence and character to pull it off... or maybe I'm just terribly delusional!!!

cheers,

Sean

The Electric Chairs is a great routine but I've never used it as a closer. Maybe it's because I'm a Mentalist and not a magician but instinctively I feel as a closer the effect would not work for me.

Paul

It ISN"T a closer! I don't want to go off too much at a tangent but the Roy Benson book published recently explains a very good way of structuring your act. Contrary to what you might expect you should NOT close with your best trick. You put that item in the second last position. No time or inclination to explain. Read the book.

And since Sean has never done this trick before he should DEFINITELY not put it last. He may leave the stage with a bad impression if he doesn't pull it off. Sandwich the item between two tricks he knows like the back of his hand.

And you DON'T have to be famous with the public. Paul Pacific nearly became famous but that doesn't count. And no. I am not going to tell you how Paul nearly became famous since Paul is sick of hearing about it. On the other hand I might if he doesn't give me Henry's password back.

More evidence that you don't have to be a household name to do this trick is that it was a favoured item of Johnny Aladdin, a magician of some repute in his day.

Incidentally you can see Maurice Fogel do this trick in a Pathe News thing on the internet. You don't hear Maurice but there is a commentary and you can see him do it. I forget the website.

Mark Lewis is right; the success of this effect has nothing to do with being Paul Daniels. It has to do with confidence and showmanship, nothing more.
I have done varients on this routine a number of times, and every single time it has been a success. No exception. And I am a lot less famous than I like to admit to.
Only two volunteers have failed to follow my instructions, and both were magicians. In both cases I had other volunteers up with them, so it didn't matter.
The best routine I have read for this type of effect is Eddie Burke's People Sticker Routine (available through www.mreenterprises.co.uk). Brilliant routine.
I have used this to close and it does work. But I am not saying it is the best closer; significantly Paul Daniels doesn't close with it, even though his version is outstanding.

Thanks Tony - I know Eddie quite well from being members of the same society. I shall have to ask him about the routine you mentioned!

cheers,


Sean