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Just pointing out the spread cull force - it seems to me that it's by far the most realistic force that I know - it looks to the spectators just as if they touched any card, and got that card.

For those who don't know it, I'll try to explain it, vaguely.

Cull the force card under the spread, and get them to touch any card. Out jog the one they touch (saying, "This one?") but keep it face down. Split the spread into two with their card supposedly on the bottom of one, and load the culled card onto the bottom of the stack.

I find it looks much more convincing than a riffle force or something similar, because the vic...spectator (subconsciously?) knows that they could touch any card.

Just to point it out

Kati

This is a good one. I use it... but the best is the fan force, if you get good with it. I am at about 70%-80% with it, and it is undetectable.

It is a patter intensive force. You just cut the force card to the middle, and catch a break above it. Then begin to fan the cards. You tell them to tap a card on the back. The trick is you just time your fan with the approach of their hand so that their fingers hit the card you want. It sounds crazy and imposable but it's not.

If they don't grab the right card, then I usually just change tricks to one in which a forced card is not necessary. But the spread cull is almost as good. The only difference is that in the fan force they simply touch a card, and then remove it from the deck. It is what it is. But for reliability I use the spread cull force.

Jeremy wrote:This is a good one. I use it... but the best is the fan force, if you get good with it. I am at about 70%-80% with it, and it is undetectable.

It is a patter intensive force. You just cut the force card to the middle, and catch a break above it. Then begin to fan the cards. You tell them to tap a card on the back. The trick is you just time your fan with the approach of their hand so that their fingers hit the card you want. It sounds crazy and imposable but it's not.

If they don't grab the right card, then I usually just change tricks to one in which a forced card is not necessary. But the spread cull is almost as good. The only difference is that in the fan force they simply touch a card, and then remove it from the deck. It is what it is. But for reliability I use the spread cull force.

I'm confused. I thought that ^ was the classic force and that the fan force was the one where you fan the faces towards the spectator and get them to choose one.

I freely admit to not being a 'cardy', but I am pretty sure what you've described is the classic force.

Semantics

No your right. I, once long ago, had the classic force described to me as "the fan force." Ever since then I get them mixed up. But your absolutely right. Sorry 'bout that.

Thanks - now I've tried it I see what you mean - it's not easy but it's not impossible. I'll definitely be working on that one!

Kati

Jeremy wrote:No your right. I, once long ago, had the classic force described to me as "the fan force." Ever since then I get them mixed up. But your absolutely right. Sorry 'bout that.

No problem. I wasn't trying to be picky, but wanted to get things straight in my own mind!

Not long ago, I purchased a DVD on the classic force, which I haven't watched fully yet. From the bits I've seen, it isn't possible to get it right every time, so it is only suitable if you can go into another trick where a freely chosen card can be used. I wouldn't have thought that was a problem for someone who does a lot of card work.

I really like the spread cull force when I see other people use it but it's one that I've never been able to get the hang of myself. I just can't get to grips with 'buckling' that card loose and pulling it free under the spread. Must be a nacky thing I suppose and maybe my grip's just wrong. I usually fall back on the riffle force or what Sankey call's the 'tap' force.

Hey there!

If you're having trouble with spread culling, have you tried the Hofsinzer-Marlo one Oz teaches on Born To Perform?

Call the card you want to cull X. Basically, you divide the spread into cards below and including X in your left hand and and all cards above X in your right hand. Then you slide the card above X (i.e. the bottom card of the spread in the right hand) over X so that it is hidden from view, 'anchor' the card above X with your right thumb, and cull it under the spread with your right index and middle fingers. You should hear/feel a 'click' when it slides under.

Kati

Thanks for the advice. I can normally cull a card from a spread without too much of a problem. The problem for me with the spread cull force is that generally you're forcing the bottom card and you need to 'release' it from the bottom of the deck.
The way I was taught to do this involves buckling the card and then sliding it with the right fingers. This is the part I struggle with.

As far as the classic force goes, I have tripled my chances of doing it correctly. This probably a widely practiced version, but it was original to my head

What I do is memorize the top two cards as well as the bottom. The top card is my target card, but after it is cut to the middle it is sandwiched between two other cards whose value i know. This way if the miss (or I miss,) there still a good chance that they will grab a card I know.

This allows me to do more back up effects.

Also, as to the spread cull, I free the bottom card with my left fingers. But then again my technique is hardly ever conventional. It seams to do the trick (no pun intended,) but I am not sure if it would not be better to use the right fingers.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.
When I said "The way I was taught to do this involves buckling the card and then sliding it with the right fingers", what I meant to say was "The way I was taught to do this involves buckling the card with the left fingers and then sliding it with the right fingers".

yeah that sounds like what I do for the most part.

Yep.. I've never managed to get the card to move off the bottom without taking all the rest of the cards. No matter what I do I just can't seem to get the knack of it. Guess I'll just never get this one sussed.

In then end I opted for the Hofsinzer one as I find this easier to do although it's more patter intensive to some extent.

Slippery

Would it help if you managed to slightly moisten the finger which touches/controls that bottom card - possibly using the condensation on the side of your conveniently placed glass of water?

Not for me. I often do find moisture (or lack of it) a problem, but even when my fingers are fully Sortkwiked-up I can't get the hang of this. I can get the bottom card to buckle but then I still can't get it to go where I want. I've had a look at Sankey's finger positions when he performs the Wichita Slip which involves a similar maneouver, but I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.