talkmagic.co.uk

We have all used youtube for some sort of entertainment or educational purpose. However, I have noticed lately that there is a great deal of (and i use this loosely) exposure of magic. Mostly it is a pair of disembodied hands shaking like a leaf in the wind. These videos are usually preceded with "Something I'm still working on" and a crummy pop song. The main example I have of this is Tony Chan's "CHANge" in which the prepubescent magi is totally messing it up, so bad in fact that without even giving an explanation, exposes the method used to execute the move. Being a purchasing customer of said effect, it made me angry that someone would do this.

Isn't one of the rules we have in magic to practice in front of a mirror? and to be able to perform without fail or flaw? Has this been amended to accomodate the use of our technological age? I am not debating the valid use to see the greats of our art PERFORMING the art. But to cut out the middle man that worked long and God only knows how long to perfect their contribution to the Magi society, just so you can half-a$$ show the world how terrible you are as a card handler? At what point should this terrible exposure be snuffed? It would be nice to see the moderators step up and stop this kind of thing.

I just had to get this off my chest. Please feel free to comment.

YouTube yoofs performing poorly and exposing through their ineptitude doesn't bother me much. Mostly the people watching those videos will be other magicians* and it probably does reduce a few sales, but I doubt any serious buying performer wastes much time looking at these things.

So the end result is that some inexperienced kids get to perform for a (very small) global community, which is good for them, while a few of their friends see how it's done and don't buy the trick from one of the more over-priced outlets.

I know that there are some basic 'reveal' videos out there but again, I'd rather spend £15 on a book than 15 hours trawling around to glean this stuff for free.

* I could be wrong. Maybe the majority of the modern viewing public see an effect on TV and head to YouTube for the revelation. That would be sad and they also become the losers in the scenario. I doubt this happens in significant numbers, but I have no data to support either theory

I think its more serious than Ted may think. You can't even watch a performance of a trick on youtube without having a dozen extremely poor "tutorial" videos popping up in the related section.

Add to that the fact that literally tens of millions of people use Youtube, the ammount of shoddy trick performances on there as well as the tutorials or spoilers for thousands of tricks, that is a hell of a lot of exposure.

I dont get it though, the reason I took up magic is because it is fun to perform for people, to wow them a little bit with a good trick, chat to the people who you perform for. Where is the fun of buying a trick, recording how its done and revealing it to any curious person out there? It takes the magic out of it!

Argh, thats the rant over. Deep breaths.....

If the spectator knows the name of the effect your performing, you are doing something majorly wrong.

Anyway, when you buy an effect, I'd hope that you make it your own. That means that if a reveal is done on youtube, yours is different enough to not be immeadiatly associated.

It bothers me inasmuch that many of my published tricks have been performed (mostly badly) by the "yoof" brigade. What's worse is the exposure they call tutorials. It's a breach of copyright and it's moraly wrong. Since YouTube commenced, I have had over 2 dozen exposure clips removed (by YouTube). Sure, not many view them - but it irritates that magic can be so badly butchered and then exposed...usually by a pre-pubescent teen in his bedroom. Paul Gordon

We've been round this loop a few times and the evidence suggests that the only people the kids in these videos are hurting is themselves. It means they can't perform any of these things for their friends. It shouldn't bother anyone serious about magic, however.

That's because it's best to think of the instructions that come with a trick as being a serving suggestion if you will. You're supposed to strip the mechanism down and rebuild it in your own image to sit perfectly in your act. It's the difference between tubes of oil paint, and a work of art versus embarrassing daubs

I can't believe that many people really care that much.

Maybe they do, but I've never come across anyone who says to me "I know how you did that trick, I looked it up on t'internet" (or "I bought the DVD from Alakazam for £19.99 including postage"). But them I'm not Derren Brown (honestly).

Maybe in the glory days of magic-on-TV people would be rushing to their keyboards to devine a method, but for most of us?

Some of the how-to-do-a-move tutorials (including those published by members of this forum) are quite useful; in some cases better than a commercial DVD. [at the risk of digging up that tired old "amateur teacher vs professional teacher vs youtube vs books debate again ]

Portal has been viewed over 2,000,000 times on Youtube. The "reveal" has been viewed only 49,000 times. And the "reveal" is RIGHT at the top of the side bar.

Search "David Copperfield Portal" in Youtube and the first hit is the performance, that can make me cry with wonder, and the second is the reveal.


I think it is encouraging that only 3% of people looked at the reveal.

These things don't really matter all that much, I used to wory about it myself but then one day I realised that most people don't watch these things and even if they do, if you perform well enough they should never link what you're doing with some tosh they've seen on youtube.

People have been worrying about exposure and how it's going to kill magic since the days of Annemann and the Jinx if not earlier. 90 odd years later and we're still performing those same old routines.

Dirty Davey wrote:These things don't really matter all that much, I used to wory about it myself but then one day I realised that most people don't watch these things and even if they do, if you perform well enough they should never link what you're doing with some tosh they've seen on youtube.

People have been worrying about exposure and how it's going to kill magic since the days of Annemann and the Jinx if not earlier. 90 odd years later and we're still performing those same old routines.

I'm not. They keep getting spotted.

Well again I appreciate all of your inputs. Again i am not debating the fact the usefullness of youtube. It is just a high annoyance to me, and apparently many others, that the hard work put into these effects is being revealed in such a terrible way. I am all for someone learning magic, and it's wonderful to see new people having an interest in our art form. I just wish people would have the decency to 1) practice it thoroughly 2) post it in a more appropriate place. That's all

Most people you show tricks to (over school age) do not search Youtube looking for magic explainations. If they did then they would normally need to know the name of it as well. You can find out the answers if you search hard enough but most people are not that pedantic. (only us).

I was in a discussion about this at the cafe just the other day, as it seems to be becoming a major pain for magicians and especially inventors. It doesnt affect me directly as the majority of my material is completely reworked (still classic effects mind you ). I originally started this approach because I wanted to do the classic effects - colour changing deck, ace routine with DFs, coin matrix etc, but didnt want mine to be the same as everyone elses. The upside to this is the public has no chance of finding my methods on you tube even if they know the name of the effect. However this approach is certainly not for everyone. There are many performers, amateur and professional, who will perform an effect exactly as written. It is these performers who are being affected by these you tube idiots, and also the inventors who have released their effects in one form or another. There is no 2 ways about it, if you are 'learning' from these videos you are STEALING from the creator. You are also not learning the craft properly - learning a move or the bare mechanics of an effect is not enough - there is a hell of alot more to performing any effect than what you will see on you tube. When we buy a book or dvd we are not only paying the creator for his effect but also for his insights, his years of experience with the effect, the misdirection hes built around it and all the little subtelties that make it what it is. There is a world of diffirence between doing a trick and performing magic, the former may be possible through these you tube 'teachers' (and i use the term lightly), the latter can only be learned properly by paying the creators their dues. jim

They can slap what they like over Youtube in my opinion.

It just encourages me to come up with my own stuff.

I thought it was concerning at first but my wife's opinion of it all changed these concerns. I use her as a moral barometer of magic because she loves to watch it but has zero interest in knowing how it's done.

I have asked her if it does not bother her not knowing how it's done but she simply replies that she would rather believe it to be real as what's the point of magic without the magic.

I like to think that the majority of people that enjoy experiencing magic/illusion/mentalism all do so because they do not care how it is achieved but care more about how it makes them feel.

We only care because we are the ones that want to know. I find it extremely difficult to not watch Magics Greatest Secrets Revealed because I have one of those "need to know everything" minds.

Fortunately my wife won't let me watch it, How Clean Is Your House it is then...