talkmagic.co.uk

I haven't posted on here in a while...

http://vimeo.com/8261293

You say this is your alternative version, and I'm not familiar with the original effect, but there's a few things about it probably worth thinking about from a presentation point of view.

Firstly, without patter it's not immediately clear what the cardini change has acheived. Only once you spread the cards face up do we realise the moment of magic was that all of the face down cards turned face up except for one, but in the instant the change happens it may be temporarily mistaken for a reveal... of the wrong card. Especially since the selection was a spot diamond, and by pure chance so was the first face up card after the change. Not always going to happen like that, but once in a while is probably still too often.

Also, assuming this is workable in the real world and not just on video, how would you cover the deck flip. You can obscure the lens under the guise of showing the selection, but not every one of your spectators greedy eyes

It wasn't very magic. Before even thinking about perfecting the necessary misdirection and patter, I would come up with, or learn an effect that is entertaining and stimulating. This lacks both.

queen of clubs wrote:how would you cover the deck flip. You can obscure the lens under the guise of showing the selection, but not every one of your spectators greedy eyes

I was quite annoyed, literally as soon as I uploaded this I found out another way in which to flip the deck right under the spectators noses. It's a sleight from a friend of mine, Cory Landels - you may or may not know him (Loki). If I'm correct, he used to be on these forums but quit magic unfortunately...

I've got this weird feeling that quite alot of you people on here hate Theory11. Just a gut feeling y'know . I feel sorry for you if you go and visit that place, jeese even if they were the best magicians out there, if there's no patter Sh*t you're gonna burn them alive .
I'm not saying this in an offensive way but, are you of a ore older generation? It's just I've started to notice that the older generation tend to stick with traditions such as; patter (story telling), dressing it all up, etc. Where as I've noticed the younger generation have started to sway from this and are showing magic in its simplest form (in other words - no bs), I'm not saying patter is bad at all, in fact in my opinion I think at times it can greatly enhance an effect. If I were to perform this in real time situations which I have with the new sleight to flip the deck without any misdirection at some restaurants I was booked at, I would use patter. When I say patter though I don't mean telling a story, I mean just telling them what's happening - not dressing it up as something that's its not. The spectators arn't stupid, they know it's not 'magic' and I get the feeling alot of the older generation try to stick to this kind of style.

I think the issue is that without any kind of patter at all, then there's no personality with which to connect. Who are you to me? Without any kind of personal interaction, the best magic in the world will at best raise an eyebrow, but in most cases illicit a shrug. If you think patter is BS then the thing you're thinking of isn't patter. If you think patter involves telling a spectator what is happening, that's even worse. They can see what's happening, so why tell them what they are seeing?

Additionally, I am not really interested in seeing effects performed without an audience present. It's worthwhile creating these things for technical feedback and analysis, but for showcasing stuff, it's pretty laughable. The magic happens in the spectator's head, so showcase that. That's why professional magicians' show reels tend to spend about 80% of the time on reactions and 20% on the effects themselves. Magic isn't sold on two cards changing places, it's sold on people picking their jaws off the floor.

I personally didn't think the trick was all that bad. I mean, it's nothing that special, but it's executed competently, in a card juggly kinda way.

Kyle, I respect the amount you put yourself out there on the internet, it's not an easy thing to do, to put yourself up for criticism time and time again, and when it comes to sleight of hand, you're pretty good, so fair play.

I have no real beef with the Theory11 types either, I know a few people who are really into that stuff, and good luck to them. I personally am not, which is not a generational thing, as I am only 23. I just don't really go in for your style of magic, in the same way you'll never see me with a Rocky Raccoon.

Remember, you asked for feedback, and we're offering it. Generally, videos of your hands with no talking or human interaction are going to leave us pretty cold. We're magicians, chances are we've seen the trick before and know how it's done, so the only thing we're interested in is how you present it and how the audience responds to it. If you genuinely present all your magic without saying so much as a David-Blaine-style "Look", then all power to you, but what will then interest me is seeing people's responses - otherwise it's just another XCM vid.

Invite some friends round, show them some material, and film it. I'd love to see it, both to offer advice and "borrow" good ideas.



Rob West

there's BS going on in all magic, patter or no...

here's how i see it - i could take that effect, add some of this fuddyduddy 'patter' nonsense to it, and get bigger reactions...

for me, if i was watching that - and had no knowledge of card work, i'd probably think "hey, that was clever..."

which is not what people should be aiming for in my opinion...

clever isn't magic...

i suppose my question is "what are you sharing with me?" when you perform this effect? whats the reasoning for it all other than ooh look the cards have flipped over...why have they?

IAIN wrote:"hey, that was clever..."

Hate it when people tell me that.

I quite liked it Kyle! As for the deck flip, this would be easily covered in a real interaction. I thought the change was great, and liked the overall effect.

As for patter, I'm usually not a major fan of the "story telling" style, that as mentioned above is a little more prominent in the old school magicians. I fall asleep when someone tells me about "these four kings" who are "attending a ball with these four queens". Much of the time its just plain patronizing. I'm not against 'patter' completely, just when it becomes boring, irrelevent and condescending.

I think the most important thing is you let your personality shine through. If you have something relevent, interesting or funny to say, sure go ahead. Just don't let it take away from the magic. A great example of 'Patter' that I truly enjoyed is tommy wonder, in his money, watch and wallet routine.

I recon patter is sometimes used under the guise of giving justification to a routine, and think this is generally ridiculous. Magic in itself has value, and doesn't always need a cute story to go along with it. You dont need to justify vanishing a coin with a story about your grandad anymore than a juggler needs to.


All the best
Oliver