talkmagic.co.uk

As you may know, one of my hobbies is to sit and think up and then design fantastic illusions, usually on a grand scale - with an unlimited buget. Often the cost of these can run into the hundreds of thousands, but every so often I make one that's actually practical.

I'm sure we have all seen Portal, and particularly the vanish of it; where David Copperfield vanishes from the middle of a platform, suspended above the audience that is connected only by a small very thin platform to the side of the stage, literally only 2 inches thick. Now the vanish is VERY impressive, and highly technical; but I have found a way to make it... more... convincing... magical... amazing...? Whatever word you prefer to use.


The performer (and second or third person if desired) stand on top of a thin steel plate which is hanging above the audiences heads. The steel plate is held aloft by four metal cables (each very thing, maybe half an inche thick at most) on each corner. They are -if desired- surrounded on all sides by the audience, then they cover themselves with a cloth, much like in Portal, and within 3, 5, 10 seconds or however long, they reappear either at the back of the theatre, or in Hawii... or wherever they like.

I hope you get the idea.


The main point of the special vanish technique is that:

1. No doubles are used
2. They are surrounded on all sides, including underneath
3. The thin steel plate is not connected in any way with the stage, but instead connected to the ceiling/rafters/crain by very thin wires.






I don't know what to do with this idea; but I am sure its a good one, and relatively cheap to make... much cheaper than Portal anyway. How can I sell this idea, or patent it? I honestly do not know where to begin.


Any ideas?



Tom
xx

Make it and test it fully. Little drawings in your head aren't going to cut it really, until everything is created, it's not worth much.

Lenoir wrote:Make it and test it fully. Little drawings in your head aren't going to cut it really, until everything is created, it's not worth much.

I have built a small working model, made of figures. I borrowed old playmobile men to represent the positions of the audience/performer and so on... but really its not involving any complex technology, so I think its ok.

Don't take this in the wrong way, but I would bet most of what I own that there is either a.)a huge fundamental flaw in the design or b.) it is already in existence.

If it's as cheap as you say it is.. Build One ! Build a working model and see if it actually works. See if it actually fools anyone.. After testing, comes the modification because you'll realize many things in your performance which you didn't think of in the first place.

After all this can you even remotely think about releasing it. Even then you should consult an experienced magician to avoid copyright infringements - you have to be 100% sure this idea has never been thought of before - not to say you copied it, but people end up doing it unintentionally too. Otherwise it may become a nightmare like it did for this kid named Alex who tried to sell his X-Levitation..

So, take your time. There's no hurry if your idea's original. Nobody's going to release it before you. I'm sure creators can pitch in here and provide their words of wisdom..

hardik988 wrote:So, take your time. There's no hurry if your idea's original.

Tell that to Leibniz.
+1 for build a working model. If there is a gaping flaw in it, better you see it now than in six months time when you've shipped a hundred of them.

The problem is; it is not a gimmick.


It is the very construction of the theatre itself, or at least the magicians bit. it would not been to be permanent ofcourse, but we are not talking about a small device, its a big thing that costs thousands of pounds to present. The actual method can be done with a table, a stool, some cloth and a big room, but to make it look professional and "shiney" will cost more money than I have. :/


Also, I could NEVER sell it as a "gimmick" in any way, because each would have to be custom made to its theatre, in size, shape and so on.


Any suggestions?

Otherwise it may become a nightmare like it did for this kid named Alex who tried to sell his X-Levitation..

I heard about that...? Wasn't that a con or something? What was it exactly?

you should also consider gigging it, if its that good, and fairly cheap to set up - why not make yourself some money and start building your reputation with it?

become famous for doing one thing that no one else can do and you're sorted...look at uri...

IAIN wrote:you should also consider gigging it, if its that good, and fairly cheap to set up - why not make yourself some money and start building your reputation with it?

become famous for doing one thing that no one else can do and you're sorted...look at uri...

Good point, but I am 17, scared, and in a big world. :/

I consider myself a good magic creator for grand illusions; I am most proud of my version of Thirteen, which actually allows you to teleport people without them knowing how, but I cannot find the funds to build such devices.

For example for this, at minimum, I need a steel platform with metal wires, a stage, and so on... plus lighting and all that.

In essence: The effect is RELATIVELY cheap, compaired to Flying, Portal and so on... but its still tens of thousands of pounds, plus theatre rental costs. :/

I can see that you think that all this will take up a lot of time, money and effort from your side, especially since you're dealing with stage magic. But, that is the right way to release an effect. BUT, like Iain, I'm all for performing it on your own and building your reputation with it, and soon you'll see how this will be a part of your personality. THEN, if someone asks you to release it, you'll be surprised by your own reaction, which will be a big flat NO.

I haven't created or released anything on my own, but I can say the above with some general knowledge about magic and it's performers.

Before you can sell an effect you MUST have an actual working copy of it... even those that have done that work for some time will oft times be asked to present a prototype prior to any kind of initial payment. When I was at Creative we had a Golden Goose or two that would trust us; Sylvan of Italy being the main patron that would just look at the catalog and say, I like this, here's money, build it!

The first Shadow Vision was built for Sylvan in fact though Copperfield knew about the concept years earlier. It wasn't until we built the first one, video taped the performance and I ran about Vegas distributing copies or mailing them out to my various contacts that we were able to sell more; the second went to Sigfried then Mark Wilson and so on. This was the same basic patten most of our effects or technology went and I'm certain Jim Stinemeyer and others will tell you the same.

But even experienced designers & developers fail to see everything... trust me on that. We've built up systems based on theory only to find simple little things that make it all "wrong".

Given your age, etc. I'd have to ask what books on effect design and related technology you've studied (including technical theater). Not to sell you short, but I fear you may not be getting the more complete picture when it comes to such things.

It is possible to patent a design. You can either do it yourself, or use a patent attorney. Research will have to be done to see if your idea is unique.

As far as selling an idea goes - that is possible too. Obviously, a working model would be more lucrative, but you can discuss the design with a professional without having a full sized prototype. You could share your idea with a professional illusion designer/builder and form some kind of partnership if your idea proves worthy.

All of these things will take some real effort on your part - but there are possible avenues if you are willing to do the work.

Although folks will discourage you, or in their wisdom of experience point out all the flys in your ointment, that does not mean you need to give up, or follow their advice necessarily. There is always room for creative genius, and if that is you, don't become discouraged. Obviously, those with many decades of experience will doubt you, for any number of valid reasons. I'm a bit skeptical myself, after 45 years of magic involving studying, practicing, inventing and manufacturing magic. So what? Maybe you are on to something.

There are safe ways to share your idea. You might want to talk to a well known illusion builder - or for that matter, a well known illusionist and decide between you how you can do this while protecting your idea.

If you want feedback on the idea from me or Craig or someone/anyone else in the game - make effort to contact them privately!

GOOD LUCK!