talkmagic.co.uk

Just a question really.

How far do you go to make an effect truly unique? Do you push the boundaries and step over the line occasionally?

An example of mine is the following:

Everybody who knows me knows that although I do have my troubles of finding my own character, one thing I am not scared of doing is pushing the boundaries, and trying something new, no matter how risky it is of being caught out.

For instance, I'm thinking of putting into my cabaret performance (a specific one, whereby they want a show which is not your standard mind-reading show) an effect whereby I actually end up "dying" on stage. That is, an effect goes very, very, very wrong and people literally think that I may have made the ultimate sacrifice. Although perfectly safe to me, they don't know it. And at that instance it is ever so real. The show gets halted, mouth to mouth resuscitation occurs by my stage hands, until I awaken coughing and choken, having been "brought back".

Eventually they realise that it is all part of the show and effect on the whole, but for those few minutes they do believe that they have witnessed something very, very bad.

So as you can see, I have pushed the boundaries a hell of a lot here - specifically having a whole routine whereby I "genuinely" pass away on stage, and to everybody watching they very much doubt that it is part of the act, with relation to the extent to which it goes...

I believe the fact that I am young as well also provides a different experience in opposition to if I was an "old wrinkly" (Mandrake )

So I'm just wondering what other people's thoughts on the matter is? Is it right, in your opinion, to push the boundaries? What is too far? Does too far really exist, as long as the audience know roughly what to expect?

hmmmm......

do what thou wilt...

your life, your morals, your own life view...

if people get up and leave though - stop it...

message ends *beep*

its been done many times in the past. Paul Daniels iron maiden springs to mind.
But Personally my advice would be Dont do it.

you see, the audience goes to see a show for a good time. Seeing the performer snuffing it, isn't fun,

daleshrimpton wrote:you see, the audience goes to see a show for a good time. Seeing the performer snuffing it, isn't fun,

But should they know that "shocking scenes may occur", does that forewarn them?

Oooooh the line is right there......

try it out, but remember you can only really do it once because as soon as word gets out that you do it the surprise, and the impact has gone.

I'm not sure that's really pushing the boundaries to be honest - as Dale says, it's been done many times before.

Also, once you've 'come back' and they eventually realise it's all part of the show, you run the risk of alienating any sections of the audience who may have been duped into truly believing it - and then feel bitter that they've been taken for such an (off-colour) ride. (and a disclaimer that shocking scenes may occur might just telegraph the whole thing anyway!)

However, IMHO, the reason I would steer clear of it is simply because I think it's old-hat... it's the ultimate 'magician in trouble' scenario and I agree with Dale that I'm not sure how many people would actually find it entertaining...

Sean

Andy Kaufman was doing a dead person routine as part of a comedy act 30+ years ago.

I personally wouldn't "die" in the show. It just seems too tacky and tasteless. Sure at first it becomes a huge shock and a surprise, but after they know you are not really dead or injured. It just looks like you are looking for a cheap thrill or gag. Which IMO tends to get old and runs dry after the first few times.

You can still do "shocking scenes." but rather than it being you dying. It would be you swallowing razors and the "shocking scene" would be the danger of you almost choking to death on them. Things like that.

Yeah I think your just bollocksed when an enterprising spec calls an ambulance.

My thought is that the ending effect obliterates all of the material and work that you have put into the show and the audience have sat through.

The whole show is then about the death scene and only that. It turns from being entertainment into something that tests the individual emotions of the audience members.

I suspect that a few will become upset while a few will laugh. I somehow think that the majority won't understand the point but may not want to.

Harry Guinness wrote:Yeah I think your just bollocksed when an enterprising spec calls an ambulance.

Yeah the min somebody in the audience decides to call an ambulance, you are pretty much in deep s***. I don't know what the laws are over there, but if the ambulance gets there and they find out it was "Just a part of the show". You'll not only find yourself in jail and fined a huge fee, but I am pretty sure your clients will most likely not go see your shows anymore.

As well as the fact that the plot twist no longer is a plot twist and you end up looking like a complete ass.

That is what actually happened to the late Tommy Cooper in 1984.
On stage and live TV broadcast. (Link)

I think a lot of people would consider a fake death on stage quite a tasteless joke.

IAIN wrote:do what thou wilt...

your life, your morals, your own life view...

if people get up and leave though - stop it...

message ends *beep*

I have to argue that philosophic view... IT'S SELFISH!

An entertainers we might be "free agents" and "self-employed" but we still have an employer and that's those people we perform for. Believe it or not, they can tell when we are being arrogant jerks who don't give a rat's pa-tutti about them or what they think about us. Because they can sense this they will let us know by NOT PAYING US and worse, pandering whatever it is we attempt to do, even after we've changed our evil ways and moved in the direction of "normalcy"

By all means, we need to push the envelope or else we and the art itself will loose, but we must exercise decorum in the process.

I guess what I'm saying is, we need to remember the other side of that opening line used by Iain..."That it harm none..."

Harry Blackstone (both of them) would actually ask for young children to be removed from the show room prior to doing the Buzz Saw and yet Richiardi was merciless, delivering one of the most brutal versions of the same effect the Blacktone's had done for decades, in a clean "bloodless" manner... The South American Master Illusionist however, had the sort of demeanor and stage presence that allowed him to go that much further, not everyone can... or should try.

I just thought of an every better example... Harry Anderson...
...in the day when Harry and many others of note, made much of their rent by doing sidewalk busking, he'd made a big name for himself doing the Needle thru Arm. Realizing how that bit of blood was so cool and accepted by the public he decided to step it up by taking a meat clever to his hand and spraying copious amounts of blood from the severed limb...
... it was a move that nearly got him lynched. He was literally chased up the street by people wanting to do bodily harm to him (and Harry ain't a little guy).

Oddly, what Harry did back then could probably work today given how social attitudes have changed. But as entertainers, I think we really need to not look at the effect and how it appeals to our ego as much as how our proposed presentation could host adverse end results and why it's best to not set ourselves into such positions.

"Freedom of Expression" has become a seriously abused idea in the past decade or so. I'm of the opinion that with such freedoms comes a huge amount of obligation in that it was never intended to be a permission slip to do whatever the hell you wanted. Rather, what you sought to convey within reasonable and respectable means, even when those means or actions are to make eyebrows raise in recognition.

Oddly, what Harry did back then could probably work today given how social attitudes have changed.

Surprisingly enough, It wont. In last years Britians got Tallent, a shock magician decapitated, and chopped his way through an assistant, in a reasonably light heartes manner, and was almost booed off the stage, because of teh copius ammounts of Blood.
Likewise, Stuart and Barrys knive violin act, which was recently shown again in glourious 3d on television, got highly mixed reviews from both Lays, and magicians alike.
Going back to paul Daniels show, he had the morrettis on many times, but only once did he show Hans and his knife in arm. Indeed on the repeat, his act was replaced by Roberto Gasser and his wonderfull sea lion act.

I think, no, i know.. that audiences love schlock, but not shock.

Hammer beats a really blood thirsty slash movie any day, because everything is done slightly tongue in cheek.


And... Im going to disagree with you.

Ians statement was in the most part, exactly the same as my post.
Try it.. if it works, carry on, if it doesnt then dont do it again.
Chris may well have an edge that we dont know, His youth and exuberance, may well sell the thing to teh audience.

where as a bloke in our physical condition.. There more likely to callthe Paramedics.

Though that in it's self, may well garner some facinating publicity

What boundary is that pushing? That looks like sensationalism for sensationalism's sake.