talkmagic.co.uk

Eshly wrote:I'm currently trying to write a script for what I eventually want to perform. But I am having two main problems:

Firstly adding in new and original jokes, its incredibly tempting to steal jokes from other Mentalists, Magicians and Comedians, but it just seems dishonest somehow and unnatural. Any advice on how to add good patter to a stage effect?

Always carry and pencil and pad and/or a tape recorder. Trying to sit down and write jokes isn't easy. It's best to just go on with your day and jot them down as they come to you. While you certainy don't want to steal material from others, don't be afraid to put your own spin on similar material. Observational jokes made by a 50 year old black woman can be just as funny when reworded from the perspective and delivery of a teenage white boy.

Eshly wrote:Secondly creating a meaning behind the effects, in the sense that there's currantly no "reason" for showing them. The show has no "plot" to it if you see what I mean. I am perfectly capable of performing all the tricks (with the exception of the Q&A I am hoping to eventually do), and I can do them for close-up (atleast the ones which CAN be done for close-up), but for some reason it is so much harder to link one effect from one to another on stage.

You don't have to routine everything fluently. There are comedians like Mitch Hedgeberg and Steven Wright that just go from one liner to one liner or Lewis Black who will go from one quick story to the next. Each joke generally has nothing to do with the prior... until the very end where the same hook and punchline ifrom the first joke is used on the last joke, bringing it all together. This can be duplicated in magic routines.

Eshly wrote:Any advice guys?

Practice comedy bits at open mic nights. You will get direct, real time feedback from your audience. You will learn the importance of timing. You will learn the importance of non-verbal cues. You will learn how to handle hecklers. You will learn how to handle failure. You will learn how to end a bad session early and perhaps most important of all, you will learn how to end a great session early. All of these things are important in magic and mentalism.

Eshly wrote:"In the early 1920's a youung girl by the name of Vera Nessingway claimed -as many people did at the time- to be genuinely psychic. She said, that she could tell what cards people were going to pick before they picked them, from a full deck of unmarked, shuffeled cards that could be shown to be all different.

I think I can do the same. I think I can tell you -in advance- what card Andy (the spectator) will pick. Andy, I want you to look through this deck of cards please, make sure they're not marked in anyway and that there all different yes? Good.

I think Andy will pick... this card..."

**I hold up a giant card showwing the King of Spades to the audience**

**We then perform smart-ass, with Andy cutting the deck and so on.**

"Andy, you've cut the cards twice and selected from any of the cards left.. they arn't numbered or marked, so theres no way (supposedly) that I can influence you to choose one... Andy, what is the name of your card."


"The King of Spades."

"... thank you so much Andy, a big hand for Andy everybody!"

There aren't any jokes or humor in this dialogue. If you wish to generate laughs from this it would need to be non-verbal.

After reading the rest of your replies in this thread, I don't know that you want to be funny so much as you fear not being liked. You need not be funny to be liked. If you wish to come across as a serious performer then you will want to go with dry, sharp and witty comments that aren't delivered as a joke in the traditional sense. You can also relate a personal story or two to put yourself over with the audience without having to be funny. Just as David Copperfield did leading into Grandpa's Aces.

If you sit down and try and write comedy, it will NOT be funny. You just gota wait till it hits you. Also, it very much depends on circumstance. It depends ont he audience, who you have up on stage... if they are game for a laugh. For instance when I'm performing, I may feel from a spec that they are up for a laugh and we have a bit of banter..usually at his expense But only if you sence that its ok by the spec and they are willing. It can go horribly wrong if youmis judge. I'm an actor, and used to being on stage and improvising but I also have a number of one liners in my arsenal. Much like Derren has "Come on I'm not a F***ing Mind reader"... he uses that in most show but not at the same point ever night..it all depends on circumstance. these lines usually come to me while I'm performing. I may just improv it one night an go "hmmm i'll keep that" cause it gets a good response.

I script in my head, but I use a list of subtelties when learning effect patter to make sure I get everything. If you "Script" it on papaer, it will sound very unnatural. You just need to talk to your audience like you would anyone else. I usually plan my show in a "Track". Meaning I plan where I'm moving, where I'm looking, when i place this envelop here for do this swap there ect. Not so much the dialouge though.

Whilst I'd agree with what's been said here previously, it might be worth looking at the latest release from Jay Sankey - 'Magic & Comedy'. Mr Sankey might not be to everyone's taste but he has got a bunch of experience in both comedy clubs and the magic world, so this might be worth a look:

http://www.sankeymagic.com/detail.aspx?ID=48415

cheers,


Sean

Eshly wrote:"In the early 1920's a youung girl by the name of Vera Nessingway claimed -as many people did at the time- to be genuinely psychic. She said, that she could tell what cards people were going to pick before they picked them, from a full deck of unmarked, shuffeled cards that could be shown to be all different.

I think I can do the same. I think I can tell you -in advance- what card Andy (the spectator) will pick. Andy, I want you to look through this deck of cards please, make sure they're not marked in anyway and that there all different yes? Good.

I think Andy will pick... this card..."

**I hold up a giant card showwing the King of Spades to the audience**

**We then perform smart-ass, with Andy cutting the deck and so on.**

"Andy, you've cut the cards twice and selected from any of the cards left.. they arn't numbered or marked, so theres no way (supposedly) that I can influence you to choose one... Andy, what is the name of your card."


"The King of Spades."

"... thank you so much Andy, a big hand for Andy everybody!"

Re-write - this is barely a script. You begin by introducing this character Vera Nessingway and set her in a specific era - and then make no mention of her or the period again. Why? Further, if this Vera was psychic, would she go through the procedure used in Smart Ass? Probably not. So again, why mention her when the link is so tenuous? You might as well make a general reference to psychics, or to magicians. It comes across as a way of trying to avoid presenting the effect in the typical 'you can all see what is happening, but let me narrate anyway' style but ultimately it rings hollow.

Point is, if you are going to ground this effect in a specific person, in a specific time, there is so much you can work into your presentation as a result - don't waste the opportunity!

I think using the word psychic will probably diminish the effect's strength somewhat as well; people hear that word, what do they think of? Speaking to the dead, twisting metal, revealing deepest secrets etc. and then you go on to do... a card trick. Just because you are predicting a card, or revealing one (however you want to frame it), that doesn't mean it has to be a duplication of a psychic demonstration.

people who dont write a script are missing a "trick"...

it sounds like some are saying 'oh but i dont want to say everything exactly the same each time..."

thats not the point of writing the script at all...

its to know where you are at any given point during each presentation, where you can see areas in which you can use the natural movement of both yourself and the people you are performing for, the timing and flow of the entire thing...which in turn will help you work out how and when to use direction and misdirection...

the singer james brown said about the bass player bootsy collins, that he was the best bassist ever, but had to learn "the one"...the root, the thing you return to, to make everything else, all the improv stuff return to, the one - the thing that you tie everything else back in with...

its the same with scripting, once you write out and fine tune your script, you can "jazz", you can do pretty much anything you want, but thats BECAUSE you have scripted it all out, you know where you are at any given point - or rather, you know where you can return to...

richard burton, the actor, would play hamlet each night on stage, but each night, the performance was difference, he'd play it for laughs, for pathos, for sincerity...subtle nuances that would ONLY come from a tight script, and knowing what you are doing inside out...

those of you who don't script - are missing out in my opinion...

"In the early 1920's a youung girl by the name of Vera Nessingway claimed -as many people did at the time- to be genuinely psychic. She said, that she could tell what cards people were going to pick before they picked them, from a full deck of unmarked, shuffeled cards that could be shown to be all different."

could become...

"In 1927, there was a young lady called Vera Nessingway. It was said that she had an unusual ability. She could somehow paint what was on someone's mind. She was a talented artist apparently, and yet sometimes, when people came to her - and were very weary and had a problem on their mind. Somehow...Vera would incorporate those thoughts into the portraits she drew. And it would eventually be her downfall. People simply stopped going to see her just in case she painted their inner most thoughts. And she left the country in 1930, for Australia, never to be heard of again...

Now, i cannot draw to save my life, if i were to attempt to draw you - it would look like this *draw a big smiley face*, however i do think i can draw whats on your mind too..but...i dont want to reveal to everyone what your inner thoughts are...not just yet...so lets play safe, and maybe have a bit of fun...would you pass me those cards that are on the table there please..."

I'm not saying mine is better, just that by adding a tiny bit of meat to the character - makes it a little more interesting...

Iain is absolutely right - the script isn't there so that you stick religiously to it every single performance. It's there to allow you some freedom in your performance - and, if the worst comes to the worst, it's there for you to fall back on if you have a bad night and forget your lines

One thing I found useful, in my previous life as a professional trainer, was to draw up a grid for each module I was teaching. Each column heading covered a particular topic and, under those headings, in each row, I would list 'trigger' words or phrases that I knew I absolutely had to mention and cover. I'd prop this grid up on my desk at the front of the class as I was teaching and it allowed me to present in my natural style whilst every so often glimpsing back at it to make sure I'd covered everything I wanted to cover.

Of course it took some getting used to and sometimes I'd find that I needed to re-order the rows to make the session flow better but it worked an absolute treat for me.

I used to use exactly the same method when I started performing magic - each column heading would be an effect I was performing and each row underneath would be a particular word or phrase I wanted to ensure I used during my patter. It helped when I learned some simple memory techniques too - because then I could dispense with the printed grid entirely! (I found the old linking method very simple to apply to this).

Anyway - just my tuppence worth