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Hi Guys,

I was thinking out headline prediction and I was wondering if there was a substance like carbon paper which will still get an impression so if I put this substance inside an envelope and write on the outside,it will go through the envelope and appear on the substance and look like it was written.

Best,

Oliver GS

i dont think anyone will explain much out in the open...there's many, many methods that will achieve what you want it to look like though...

what books have you read on mentalism?

Once again, many methods. You might want to have a look at Corinda- which by the sounds of it you have, but you need to take another look It's all in there and we're not all to keen on openly discussing methodology.

IAIN wrote:i dont think anyone will explain much out in the open...there's many, many methods that will achieve what you want it to look like though...

what books have you read on mentalism?

I haven't read much just 13 steps to mentalism and Practical Mental Magic,I have edited my post,thank you.

magicollie, I fully understand your enthusiasm and how the imagination can go off on tangents but it is important to bear in mind that even those that have twenty, thirty or more years experience around this stuff find themselves reinventing the wheel from time to time. In other words, most of what we theorize and come up with has already been done in some manner.

Take a deep breath and learn the basics first... don't just read over those two primary books but study them and learn all that you can from them. I do however suggest that you supplement certain areas such as the Billet information with material that's more contemporary such as the Elliott Bresler SWITCHCRAFT notes and even Allen Zingg's Master Billet Course. Too, so as to help you see just how potent some of this material is, I'd suggest you get Osterlind's Easy to Master Mental Miracles series on DVD. I'm not a huge fan of Richards but this is one piece he put out that I believe should be on the reference shelf of everyone involved with Mentalism.

When it comes to your question, you will find more answers in the T.A. Water's MIND, MYTH & MAGIC but I do not suggest anyone new to mentalism to go near that book until they've cultivated a solid foundation for themselves. This is a more intermediate level of study and not for the novice.

Be patient and enjoy the journey

At least you have read Anneman and Corinda . Many havent.

BUT what you need to do, is Study them. Many flip through, and consider that reading.

There is a lifetime of material in those books alone, if you study them.

( annemann the life and times of a legend is your next investment, because that book has around about 90% of Annemans entire body of work)
available here....

http://www.magicbox.uk.com/shop.php/sho ... /p_26.html

And by far the best price around. You can pay double that. Its priceless!

Completley agree with craig. The 13 steps and Anneman's work is the foundation of pretty much 90% of ALL mentalism.
I find myself, as I'm sure we all do, coming back to that book more and more frequently, the better I get. I am reminded of watching a mentalist who wasn't a very good performer at all, who did a trick in which nothing was written, said and he revealed the thoughts of a spectator before she had told anyone. The method I shall not go into, but despite it being a wonderful trick- it didn't really worry his audience. Now, what he was doing was a scary thing- but his audience let on that it was ANOTHER trick and that what he was doing wasn't real. In contrast, this made me think of a marvelous performer- who indeed could replicate any comlex trick and marvelous clean effect- but did a simple billet reading trick. His presentation, every scentence and throw away comment made it something which genuinley worries his audience- he was demonstrating an ability that was scary and dangerous!
Corinda says some true wisdom, which unfortunatley you can only really appreciate once you've learned for yourself-

'the thing about advice is that the foolish don't heed it- and the wise don't need it'

or at least something like that..
For example, SO many mentalists I have watched draw so much attention to the billet it's untrue. Unless it is a routine like the routine Corinda gives for the C. tear, then there is absolutley no need for so much attention to be brought to the physical manifestation of the thought- the billet. The best one's get it written down as an afterthough and don't care about the billet- all the attention is on the 'process' of the mind reading. On that topic, Peek performances is another good one for billet work I find- but leave that for once you've got down the basics
My first read of Corinda was back when I wanted very 'pure' and 'clean' effects, and so I wasn't dancing on the top of the world with joy at the book (I am ashamed to say) and now that I have come somewhat closer to realising that dream I had of clean and pure effects- I find myself ever returning to the pages of this book- upon which the foundations of the 'purer' stuff is built- and smiling after each read. The thing is- the pure stuff MAY in part have something to do with having a clean effect. But it makes no difference because it all comes down to the showmanship and presentation- something, which if you Study this book, you can develop. Just my thoughts on the book.
Osterlind is another good source- I personally, like craig, am not a huge fan of his performances nor do I fully agree with all he has to say, but he does have some really good stuff to offer, so that is something I would highly reccomend to someone getting into mentalism.

Craig Browning wrote:magicollie, I fully understand your enthusiasm and how the imagination can go off on tangents but it is important to bear in mind that even those that have twenty, thirty or more years experience around this stuff find themselves reinventing the wheel from time to time. In other words, most of what we theorize and come up with has already been done in some manner.

Take a deep breath and learn the basics first... don't just read over those two primary books but study them and learn all that you can from them. I do however suggest that you supplement certain areas such as the Billet information with material that's more contemporary such as the Elliott Bresler SWITCHCRAFT notes and even Allen Zingg's Master Billet Course. Too, so as to help you see just how potent some of this material is, I'd suggest you get Osterlind's Easy to Master Mental Miracles series on DVD. I'm not a huge fan of Richards but this is one piece he put out that I believe should be on the reference shelf of everyone involved with Mentalism.

When it comes to your question, you will find more answers in the T.A. Water's MIND, MYTH & MAGIC but I do not suggest anyone new to mentalism to go near that book until they've cultivated a solid foundation for themselves. This is a more intermediate level of study and not for the novice.

Be patient and enjoy the journey

Thank you very much,some really good advice here and some great books I will study,thank you.

SO many mentalists I have watched draw so much attention to the billet it's untrue.

I tiny bit off topic i know, But this reminds me of my thought on the subject so....

Most people do the c/t, or billet work using quite small pieces of paper.
Many use these small pieces in formal routines.

to my mind, the majority of the time, theses scraps of paper, should be just that. A small piece of paper you just happen to have in your pocket, onto which your helper will write.

the back of a bus ticket, or a bit torn from an old fag packet, is in most cases more logical than the neat 3" squares you see time, and time again.

It adds an impromptu nature to the effect, if you are seen to be rummaging around in your pockets, in order to find that bit of paper that you " know is there somewhere..."

If your going to carry cut billets, then let them be in a buiseness card holder, or tucked within a silvered note case...
When a routine calls for it....Make them extra important to you... but of no real importants to the effect.

I may move this to a more apropriate area....

D.

SamGurney wrote:Completley agree with craig. The 13 steps and Anneman's work is the foundation of pretty much 90% of ALL mentalism.
I find myself, as I'm sure we all do, coming back to that book more and more frequently, the better I get. I am reminded of watching a mentalist who wasn't a very good performer at all, who did a trick in which nothing was written, said and he revealed the thoughts of a spectator before she had told anyone. The method I shall not go into, but despite it being a wonderful trick- it didn't really worry his audience. Now, what he was doing was a scary thing- but his audience let on that it was ANOTHER trick and that what he was doing wasn't real. In contrast, this made me think of a marvelous performer- who indeed could replicate any comlex trick and marvelous clean effect- but did a simple billet reading trick. His presentation, every scentence and throw away comment made it something which genuinley worries his audience- he was demonstrating an ability that was scary and dangerous!
Corinda says some true wisdom, which unfortunatley you can only really appreciate once you've learned for yourself-

'the thing about advice is that the foolish don't heed it- and the wise don't need it'

or at least something like that..
For example, SO many mentalists I have watched draw so much attention to the billet it's untrue. Unless it is a routine like the routine Corinda gives for the C. tear, then there is absolutley no need for so much attention to be brought to the physical manifestation of the thought- the billet. The best one's get it written down as an afterthough and don't care about the billet- all the attention is on the 'process' of the mind reading. On that topic, Peek performances is another good one for billet work I find- but leave that for once you've got down the basics
My first read of Corinda was back when I wanted very 'pure' and 'clean' effects, and so I wasn't dancing on the top of the world with joy at the book (I am ashamed to say) and now that I have come somewhat closer to realising that dream I had of clean and pure effects- I find myself ever returning to the pages of this book- upon which the foundations of the 'purer' stuff is built- and smiling after each read. The thing is- the pure stuff MAY in part have something to do with having a clean effect. But it makes no difference because it all comes down to the showmanship and presentation- something, which if you Study this book, you can develop. Just my thoughts on the book.
Osterlind is another good source- I personally, like craig, am not a huge fan of his performances nor do I fully agree with all he has to say, but he does have some really good stuff to offer, so that is something I would highly reccomend to someone getting into mentalism.

I agree with you completely.I didn't love 13 steps when i read it the first time but I'm now going over it everyday and picking up concepts and details I have missed.

Dont get me wrong,osterlind has come up with some of the best tricks around (I think the steel blindfold is up there) but when watched the easy to master mental miracles he barely add any presentation to the effect and treats them like magic tricks.

I agree for once. It took me a while to realise it, but 13 steps is pretty much an overview of everything Mentalism is. The advantage you get with it is that it gives you unlimited possabilities with the imagination; the disadvantage of the book is that it is outdated in some places and it does not go into detail; for example I'd love it if the Billets section was bigger.


The reason I am making this post is to finally admit to Craig that I was wrong when I mocked Corinda so harshly in the past; and also because I am trying to demonstrait that even I (and I'm pretty stubborn) have to admit that theres ALOT in 13 steps to keep you going.

I just wish it had something on Spoon Bending

I think Osterlind adds some nice touches but I just don't think he has anything that is suggestive of another realm about him. It's like Docc Hilford, his publications make for interesting and often thought provoking material, but I'm not too kean on his presentation either.
And for billet work I use index cards- which I have in my pocket- I also do writing on them (for swamis and predictions e.t.c.) so I have a reason for having them other than getting people to write stuff down which seems a bit suspect. I like using them anyway, for notes and revision e.t.c. so they are actually something I have in my pocket, but I've never liked the idea of having perfectly arranged billets if I'm honest. I personally find that tearing up an envelope to use for a billet often brings to much attention and makes the billet to memorable for my liking. Same thing with having elaborate designs on them- surley a bit of paper so that they don't forget the word, or so that they can proove they were telling the truth should be just that- if it's essential to the story like the C tear routine, or the 'globe' misdirection Corinda said he uses then that's more acceptable, but if you were doing it for real, you'd simply use any odd bit of paper. Once again, though, this is subject greatly to personal taste, style and preference. Once again, going a little of topic, but the dialogue is flowing niceley- the centre tear. How many times do I need to see someone saying 'Think of a word- write it in the middle of that circle, fold it in half and fold it in half again and now watch as I tear it up carefully- your word was.. 'You suck??''
Tears are difficult to get around in terms of explanation sometimes, but can be done with the correct presentation. But so many forget how rediculous the plot is- why am I writing a word and then immediatley you are tearing it up??
Billets (and the c tear) are an interesting topic, perhaps we should open another thread or go onto an existing one?
We must remember that we are already compromising on what they expect of a mind reader by having it written- now telling them about writing in specific, arkward places and folding like origami and handling is suspiciously is just taking liberties, plain and simple. At least if you must, have some excuse for doing so, but never 'sans raison'.
Is that even 'un mot' in 'anglais'- 'je ne sais pas' 'c'est' just, 'Je suis' talking 'en francais'. Anyway..
Thanks

Eshly, the section on billets in the 13 steps is more than satisfactory for not only an overview- but if you actually take the time to learn what it's talking about you can have, as he quite rightly says at the start of the chapter, hours of fun and reward.
It is incredibly detailed- and concise. Each time I delve back into it, I have learned from experience and time, and I realised that it was already in the pages of this book.
I think Eshly, when I began, I loved the book, because it was a book of some nice tricks and 'secrets'. Now it means so much more than that, and really holds a value to me.

Wow ,this thread has become extremely interesting but can someone please help me out about what I posted this thread about,lol,but Im rally enjoying this discussion.

Magicollie -

Sorry, but I'm not sure what exactly your question is. I guess I simply haven't gotten to that part in Corinda :>

Sam -

My preffered routine, which works perfectly so far, is to ask them to think of a word, any word.
No, not that one. Try something more ordinary, less exotic. Good, good.
Now, do you know about visual memory? We're going to imprint the word in the visual part of your brain, so that it stays for as long as possible.
[I draw a sun on a piece of paper]
Write your word in the middle of the sun. Now look carefully at the paper, and remember the entire image. Don't think of the word as letters combined, but try to retain the shape of the letters, the straight and curvy lines. Got it? Great, now lets destroy the paper, so that there will be no trickery involved !

So far it works flawlessly, every time, which I wish I could say about most mentalism effects I've tried.