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I think I will get all three correct, but I do worry that in other parts of the show there is NOTHING that ever goes wrong. I don't want it to seem like magic.

Eshly wrote:I think I will get all three correct, but I do worry that in other parts of the show there is NOTHING that ever goes wrong. I don't want it to seem like magic.

In that case, get things wrong earlier in the show! Maybe try and build one of those earlier 'near misses' into the final reveals.

I know the routine you're referring to and there's heaps of scope to use the revelations to callback to something that went wrong earlier in the show.

I agree with Dale - any ending has got to be perfect. (It's a shame we can't talk about the end of Derren's Enigma show here.. but, for those who have seen it, can you imagine if he got any of his last revelations 'off by one'...? Imagine the implications! )

Sean

Dude, although I'm no mentalist I'd point out that it's a finale piece and as such it should be spectacular cause it'll be one of the bits the audience are most likely to remember when they're on their way home... If you fail here there is nowhere left to redeem yourself later, which is an important part of failure for a performer; their redemption.

I'd also say you should remember that nothing in life always goes to plan, so be ready in case some of your '100% accuracy' isn't quite as failsafe as ou think...

CLUE: Have near misses in other parts of your show... instead of the 8 of clubs you say "a Black 8... I'm uncertain" Nothing wrong in that your audience will forgive such.

You might also look at Greg Arce's "6 Degrees of Separation" in that it's a devastating bit of business in which you apparently miss in a very big way only to have the audience prove to you that you didn't. I've been using this bit for quite a number of years and it's a killer.

Creating a near-hit is easier than a complete miss, and the audience is far more forgiving. However, there are times when a total miss can work psychologically, but I'll suggest that you not plan them out in the script or it will be caught by those that see you work more than a few times. Too, as many a veteran will tell you, the misses are going to happen even without you trying for them

Eshly wrote:Can I just point out that currantly ALL of my show can be done to 100% accuracy - it does not rely upon "psychology" for real at any point, nor upon chance or luck.

Hardly mentalism then is it?

and how many shows have you put on now? when you were talking about your last show you never actually performed it!

I don't think that there's often really any need to get things wrong, make it seem as if you're having difficulty getting the reveal or get a close hit. I've messed around with deliberate misses before but they always seem to be more of a disapointment and anti-climax to the audience rather than proof that it's not a trick.

Eshly wrote:I think I will get all three correct, but I do worry that in other parts of the show there is NOTHING that ever goes wrong. I don't want it to seem like magic.

Why are you so worried about it seeming like magic. Magic is what you are doing and no matter how much you try to dress it up as clever psychology/body language or whatever, people are going to work out that what you are really doing is magic tricks. What will happen then is that people will go from thinking that you are an expert in psychology to viewing you as 'just' another magician. Whereas, if you try to market yourself as someone who brings psychology to magic (sounds familiar ) then people will view you (potentially) as an expert magician as well as an expert in psychology.

If you spend your whole time trying to hide from what you are, then you'll only be miserable and others will view you as a charlatan and living a lie when they discover that you aren't doing anything close to what you're pretending to do. You don't ever have to use the word 'magic', just don't spend your whole time working out ways of not appearing to do magic tricks.

A J Irving wrote:

Eshly wrote:I think I will get all three correct, but I do worry that in other parts of the show there is NOTHING that ever goes wrong. I don't want it to seem like magic.

Why are you so worried about it seeming like magic. Magic is what you are doing and no matter how much you try to dress it up as clever psychology/body language or whatever, people are going to work out that what you are really doing is magic tricks. What will happen then is that people will go from thinking that you are an expert in psychology to viewing you as 'just' another magician. Whereas, if you try to market yourself as someone who brings psychology to magic (sounds familiar ) then people will view you (potentially) as an expert magician as well as an expert in psychology.

If you spend your whole time trying to hide from what you are, then you'll only be miserable and others will view you as a charlatan and living a lie when they discover that you aren't doing anything close to what you're pretending to do. You don't ever have to use the word 'magic', just don't spend your whole time working out ways of not appearing to do magic tricks.

Just to add one point: Derren says he uses magic!

Lawrence wrote:Just to add one point: Derren says he uses magic!

But that's just misdirection, he's obviously some kind of lobster-creature.

Dominic Rougier wrote:

Lawrence wrote:Just to add one point: Derren says he uses magic!

But that's just misdirection,

Damn, he got me

Dominic Rougier wrote:

Lawrence wrote:Just to add one point: Derren says he uses magic!

He even referred to himself as a magician in the last DB Investigates. Which is cool. I think most people in the public have come to see him as a magician.

Anyone could do a thought of card to wallet if they plan on getting it wrong...

Why are you so worried about it seeming like magic. Magic is what you are doing and no matter how much you try to dress it up as clever psychology/body language or whatever, people are going to work out that what you are really doing is magic tricks. What will happen then is that people will go from thinking that you are an expert in psychology to viewing you as 'just' another magician. Whereas, if you try to market yourself as someone who brings psychology to magic (sounds familiar Wink ) then people will view you (potentially) as an expert magician as well as an expert in psychology.

Spoken like both, a skeptic that simply don't care and someone that don't understand the psychological differences between magic vs. mentalism.

Perhaps... one would hope, the current trend of fewer and fewer wannabes coming into mentalism (and many migrating away from it) will ultimately save it as a unique art form (one more time)... but until those that think themselves "mentalists" actually start acting as such and approaching what they do as such... yep! It's just going to come off as a poorly presented TRICK vs. a very smoothly created miracle; the former is a thing of observation where as the other is a thing of investment. A Huge difference!

The occasional miss or near-hit makes what we do come off as being far more genuine and in line to what "real world" psychics, prophets, seers and soothsayers are known for. THIS IS WHY the art of the miss is so vital to those of us that choose to not do magic shows with a pseudo-psychic or even intellectual slant... no one is that perfect other than a con artist/magician... at least in the mind of the public who is after all, the folks paying your rent.

I think the only trick that COULD be a near miss, without me loosing £50, is Richard Osterlind's watch routine.

Not sure how far off I should be though.

Eshly wrote:I think the only trick that COULD be a near miss, without me loosing £50, is Richard Osterlind's watch routine.

Not sure how far off I should be though.

I'd go for 0% off.

By the way, this thread is now about Derren, so you're off topic.

Just a random thought I had the other day...

Does anyone ever present OOTW with say an 80-90% success rate, rather than 100%? (By which I mean 80-90% of the cards are in the right place, not that it fails one or two performances out of ten...)

Reckon it could be potentially quite believable. (Though I suspect that this just means my presenting it is bad in the first place...)

Been thinking about this a bit recently...I think the near miss thing has it's place in serious displays of mentalism, but not in magic shows with bank night routines and the like...Maybe I'm just plain wrong though...