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Myself personally £12 an hour is waaaaaaaay too low. that's a scandal really. People who work for British Gas earn that, and they're rubbish at their jobs

And no you shouldn't do a free week that's a bit daft.

But I tell you no two magicians will ever, EVER, agree on how much to charge. I was taught magic by House of Magic's previous owner John Milner and John thought nothing of charging £200 an hour, still John is a member of the Inner Magic Circle with Gold Star.

Tonight I'm working for the West Midland police, walking round a muddy field in the cold for an hour doing some magic. I'm charging £100, that's my usual rate.

My gut feeling says you should start out charging £50 an hour when you first start out, that's what I did. But that's just my gut saying that. And I might just be hungry

Opinion on a trial/free week is going to be more divided than that of the rate you charge so it's probably best going with your gut feeling on the issue.

I've never really considered restaurant work, but if I were in your situation I'd leave the free week as a negotiating point. If they're generally receptive to the idea of having a magician but seem like they're ooohing and ahhing over it then you can throw that in, making it seem like the offer was on the table all the time (Approach it like a good bit of equivoque!).

If on the other hand they don't seem interested at all then don't offer it as a sweetner. If they're not interested, they're not interested.

Oh, and another thought - make sure you have a receipt/invoice for them when you do your stint. They'll need some paperwork from you to balance their books. No need to get a receipt book printed, you can throw something together on your PC and print it out before you go. Drop me a PM if you want help with that.

I wouldnt offer them a free week,tell them the rates for weddings/corporate etc,and then give them your price for 2hrs table hopping,keeping all of their diners happy,also helping alleviate the pressure of the chef/waiters/waitresses on their busy nights.
At £50-£60 per hour they should be very happy.
Also make sure you give out plenty of business cards,the night is for your gain as well as the restaurants.
Good luck with the gig,and let us all know how it went.

Deano

I don't agree with not offering a free trial period. The very first time I did walkaround, and I've only done it a dozen times over about 2 years, I offered the first 2 nights for free. Why? Quite a few establishments have had bad experiences with magicians, financially and otherwise and if you'd like a lot of work there, which I got in the end, giving them proof that you are hard working and entertaining is important.

Work for free or full price, but never for less than you are worth.

Working for £12 an hour is insulting to Magic/Mentalism and it's insulting to yourself.

Offer to do a couple of hours trial, for a meal rather than a free week. If you say free week, they may well hold you to that, and you end up in there for 7 days.
Also, in the past i have been caught out twice by this one....

Hi, is that Mr Shrimpton? Good.. Its the Lotus flower , You offered a free evening.. We were wondering if you could possibly come in for a couple of hours next wednesday?.. Thats right, the 14th of feb... we wanted to offer something special for valentines night.

me.. No. Any normal night would be ok, but to be honest i would normaly charge more for a night like Valentines because of teh extra tables..
Oh.. ok.. thanks for letting us Know Mr Shrimpton... Click.

I wouldnt of got any more work from the lotus...( they closed 3 weeks after) and they wanted a free magician for Valentines night. Bearing in mind that they were going to advertise a magician... but not me, i think it's the best thing to do.

If you give a freebee, make sure thet they mantion your name on the poster,by way of advertisement for you. It is the least they can do.

and remember, christmas, and new year is not that far away.

Go into a local restaurant and tell the manager/owner you are thinking of eating in his restaurant once a week, and could you and your partner have a 3 course meal on friday night to see how it goes,free of charge.
I bet his second word is "OFF"
I agree that alot of magicians do a freebie from time to time,charity etc,but i wouldnt offer a freebie, I know someone who did this a couple of years ago,the owner advertised this night as an evening of entertainment and a 3course meal for £XXX and never had any intention of giving him any regular work,his restaurant was full with diners,he made a pretty penny,and never even offered him a tip.
Needless to say he never went into that restaurant again.
Dont fall into the same trap as my friend did.

Good luck

Deano

Eshly wrote:So you think I SHOULDN'T offer a free week?

It depends on many factors. Here is how I worked it, again keep in mind you and I are in two different worlds geographically wise. And there are many who would disagree with what I am about to say, but I don't think it is a matter of right or wrong, I think it is a matter of what works for you and your situation.

If I am approaching a pub for the first time to get work, (note, I've already scoped the place out to get a feel for the flow).

My first conversation would be an introduction of what I do, and what I can do for them, (usually the same thing). Lets assume this is a 'cold' call and the reaction is not negative, but not reassuring either. The following conversation happens.

Mr. Pub, I notice that on Wednsdays your pub is quite slow why not let me come in on Wednsdays and you can see what I do and see what kind of reception your guests give me, how well I work with the staff, etc. Lets try for the next four Wednsdays and all it will cost you is my meal on Wednsday nights.

If I am really ambitious I may also point out that I notice that they have a line out the door on Fridays (if they have a line on Fridays) and I make the same deal for Fridays and I will entertain people in line so they don't decide to go somewhere else.

I will also encourage the manager to let people know that I will be there, as it becomes a draw, I would ask the customers that if they enjoyed the magic to please let the waitstaff know, (they in turn will tell the manager). In a month I will talk again with the manager and come up with a fee.

Please note:
I do not take tips. I am not in competition with the waitstaff, I will be making far more money than them per hours. I also make sure the guests know I don't take tips so they are not worried about it the entire time. If they insist, (and sometimes they do and it is rude to turn the tip down) then I give the tip to the waitstaff. (tipping waitstaff is just about manditory here in the US and Canada).

My job is not magic, it is to make sure the guests are having a good time and will come back. If a guest needs water or salt or a spoon I am more than happy to let the waitstaff know.

I am there to make the waitstaffs job easier, and I let them know. A dinner going to be late? find me I can entertain them and they won't know. Loud kids? find me I'll make a couple of balloon animals. Messed up an order? find me, I'll show em a few tricks while you get it sorted out.

Manager is watching? I'll borrow a dollar bill and switch if for a 5 and give the patron the five, (This is very impressive and usually they turn end up buying a drink with the fiver, which adds to the income of the bar and keeps them buying drinks) I believe in giving away 10% of my pay to such endeavours.

I've typed too much already and I can go on for an hour. But hopefully you get the idea, in the end you have to do what is comfortable for you, and what you can live with.

One other sore spot amoungs magicians and pricing. I do not like when magicians undercut one another on prices. Let me regail you with a story of a magician that did (does?)

There was a guy in town actually he was new in town and would take any gig he could get his hands on, restaurant work, childrens parties, weddings, conventions grand illusions. You name it he did it, and the price didn't matter. He would work for 10 dollars an hour or 500 dollars an hour he didn't care. Other entertainers (not just magicians) hated him as he took a lot of work from a lot of people, he didn't quote prices to customers, he asked them what they would pay, and that is what he would charge. In about three years not only was he employing 3 or 4 magicians full time and had the rest of the cities magicians on standby and worked as an agent in certain cases. He was charging no less than $250.00 for a 45 minute childrens show, and was getting more work than he could handle. And the other magicians who were so upset with him earlier on were now happy that he was around as they got a lot of work through him.

What kills me is that he was not only a poor magician, he was a poor entertainer in my not so humble opinion.

So? Who knows what is right and wrong.

I just wanted to say congratulations on getting out there. All discusions on Pricing and freebies aside You should be very pleased of what you've done so far.
I can honestly say I'm proud of your achievments and so should you.

Here is my 2 pennies:

Hourly rate; If your intentions are as part of a larger "business plan" then price with that in mind. Otherwise if this is about getting experience and making a bit of cash from it then don't under sell yourself but don't price yourself out.
I think the previous post "about £60" sounds reasonable - you can settle on £50 you may also wish to mention that you'll charge £50 per hour for 2 hours but if I stay longer than that (which I usualy do) I won't charge you for the extra. You have to then manage your time here. give a little over your alloted time but don't let them abuse your generosity! This is just a good habbit to get into anyway.

Another little thing is if you are loking to expand you will get asked (A LOT) if you do "kids birthdays" get good at politely saying no. (unless ofcourse you do kids shows as well!)
Many people would like a "business" card but anything that clearly says who you are/what you do and a number works. You may wish to get that into your closing trick???
I would always check with the manager/boss if it's ok to hand out your cards as they can sometimes be funny about it.

Once again Esh well done! let me know how it goes.

Working out a rate is hard. Very hard. It's the hardest part of self employment, even harder than tax

It mostly depends on two things: what you want to make (you have to house and feed yourself, and you want a good lifestyle), and what everybody else in your local area is charging. Figure it out from there

But you'll probably make a mistake. We all do. I still cringe when I remember what I charged for the first website I did for money. So overcharge rather than undercharge - they won't blink an eyelid if you don't.

If they say it's too expensive see if you can compromise on the details - but whatever you do, never negotiate the price down for the same amount of work. You'll only get the reputation of being that magician who buckles at even the sight of a haggle

I've always heard Paul Green talk about taking the highest priced item on the menu and then charging double or triple that. Though depending on what type of place you work at, this may not always work, being that the highest priced item could end up being 10-20 dollars and you'd still be making a lot less than the average performer.

It is never a good idea to undercharge what others are charging, because once you are done working there. They could try that place out, and end up really pi**ed off when the staff goes "Oh but so0so charges this much..".

I've just got back from Loch Fyne, the restaurant which I saved till last because its so PERFECT, and it went brilliantly.

I said £60 in the end, although I said I would be flexible if needs be, as the place is very nice. The whole thing went very well and the manager seemed to really like me and said he'd been thinking about getting a performer.

He said he'd have to call his boss and would get back to me on Monday.


Do people actually return these calls? He seemed to really be interested, and was very friendly


Tom
xx

Sometimes they do, and Sometimes they don't. If you don't get a call back, then just move onto the next place.

daleshrimpton wrote:dont think so.

But he does have a valid point about regions Lee.
Mark James bought up the subject of northern fees at his lecture the other month, and there is a difference.

Plus, we dont know how Tom's selling himself.

If he mentions that these are going to be his first gigs..( Please say you didnt say that Tom!!) then they are going to want to pay less.

My sugestion to you tom, for what It's worth, is go in and ask for what Lee is saying.
but before you do, set in your mind the lowest amount you will accept. ( 50 is probably about it.
If you are pushed into a corner, and have to accept that lower fee, you go for a meal on top...
or, if it's a pub, a couple of pints AFTER the gig.

if the venue has a hen night in, or they want you in christmas, new year, or bank holidays.. make sure that they know now that you are going to charge a little bit more..Its only fair, since they will take more covers, and you will be working more.

I agree with what your saying about regions this is a valid point, you have made some other very good points here Dale.

I cant belive I forgot. (always make sure you get a meal thrown in)


Let us know that they say? if you get £60 that would be a great start for you.

Eshly wrote:I've just got back from Loch Fyne, the restaurant which I saved till last because its so PERFECT, and it went brilliantly.

I said £60 in the end, although I said I would be flexible if needs be, as the place is very nice. The whole thing went very well and the manager seemed to really like me and said he'd been thinking about getting a performer.

He said he'd have to call his boss and would get back to me on Monday.


Do people actually return these calls? He seemed to really be interested, and was very friendly


Tom
xx

Glad to hear it, even if they don't get back to you you still made a contact and some in roads. Again, congrats to you