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I'm pretty much decided that I should work in a venue, local lively bar - for free to a) get regular real-world practice... and well that's about it - the other advantage is that if something better comes along in the future, I'm not tied into it.

I know some people say never work for free, because it undercuts professionals, the business doesn't respect you, you will get known as working for free, etc etc...

but
It's a catch-22, because it's not fair to charge top dollar if you haven't got experience, and you can't get the experience unless you do the work - I certainly know of some magicians who went and did a few months to a year for free to get that experience, and build that skill set.
Also, did I read it here, the idea that other artistic performances - drama, music, etc... all go and do work for free, but in magic - people find the magic shop and in two weeks, they've got a business card, a website and they are telling people they are a professional magician.

I've been doing magic for eight years, and I know some good magic, and a few effects that I have honed well, but I'll be honest, my gig experience is limited - I've done a lot for friends, and friends of friends, etc - but if I tried to start a business on just my friends, it wouldn't last long (no matter how popular I am) - so I guess, that working for free, even if just for a few months, allows me to network, and hand out cards to people who might be interested in private work (which I know is not priced as high as pro's that have been working 25 years + etc).

Final plus point is that this experience can then be used to sell to other venues, 'Oh I worked at this bar here is a written reference.'

My questions are,
What is the best way to approach to a bar, with this idea, without sounding like a complete amateur?

I have some experience, just not lots, but I would still like the venue to hold the magic with some value. My thoughts are, that the value they see in it, will come later if it's successful and it brings people in. Hopefully then if I say, 'I can't work for free anymore, I'm moving to this bar that said they will pay me', they might say 'Well we can pay you this much to stay here, instead.'

Finally, although the experience, and networking is a plus, a few tips wouldn't go a miss - I've read the books, seen the dvds from America, but I'm here in the UK, do people really tip? because I've had people say to me, 'Can I buy you a drink?' - but never, 'That was great, here's a tip.'

Your thoughts are welcome.Thanks.

Hi Mate,

Tipping over here isnt very common. its not standard practice to tip a magician. Taxi drivers, waitesses, strippers etc - different.

In terms of performing some free magic for venues;

find the venue (s) get a deck of cards and a sharpie, go in and speak to the management and explain to them what you want to do. explain how it could set them aside from the other places in town, show them a couple of effects and give them your number / email. i think this is the best way and what i'll be doing very soon.

Best of luck!

There was once a point in the Manchester TM meets where we got free beers and a meal for a little performing in there.

The owner was really into it as we'd hit his bar and left some souveniers the previous month and I did a deal with him. Worked out for everyone as we got some drinks and a good feed without the major pressure of being paid top dollar and getting to work on our skills. He got a bunch of reasonable magicians at a cheap price, win win all around.

Best to speak with and approach the management I would say, most people love something for nothing but don't tie yourself in for more than a month or so at a time because you might hate it/that bar or something better comes along in that time.

Also if it's free pick a night to suit you...

Nothing wrong with performing for free as you gain experience. Just check that the management is OK with it.

If your skills are good busking is a good way to get experience as well as earn a bit of cash. I busked for a few years and it improved my technique and (most importantly) my audience management skills no end.

Hmm, thinking abut it, I quite miss busking. It's a lot of fun.

When I used to do a lecture specifically on restaurant magic some 15+ years ago I used to suggest that if people wanted to have an initial go at working a restaurant (to get the feel of it and build a repertoire) that it's always a possibility to approach a venue, suggest that you are aiming to raise money for a charity cause, and would they be happy for you to perform in their venue for a couple of Sunday lunchtimes and have a box for customers to leave donations on the way out ?
Obviously you pick a charity to hand money over to and give them what goes in the box, but it gives you the opportunity to try it out and test material. Comic relief is always a good choice, as people are used to odd fundraising ideas for that - and you'll be doing something useful whilst learning.
I've no idea whether it would work in bar, but I guess it would be the same - it gives you the chance to pick up contacts, get a working photo or two, maybe press coverage, but definitely experience.
The secondary point, though, is that if you and they get on, and the management see you as an asset, then the next stage is to negotiate a fee if they want you to stay on after your fundraising period is up.
Hope that helps.

If its experience you're are after then approach the manager and ask if you can perform some magic with any tips/donations going to his favourite charity. He usually has a collecting tin of some kind on the bar. Do this at 2 or 3 bars on an ad-hoc basis for a few months and you'll quickly get the experience and can use the manager as a reference when you try for a paid restaurant or other gig. You'll also become hardened to all the possible comments, the drunks, the grabbers and the downright rude.

Dont force yourself on anyone, and always ask if they would like to see a 'couple of minutes of magic.' Dont expect or ask for a donation to the charity.

Make sure you hand out lots of business cards. its a great way to get an intro to birthday parties and weddings.

Thats how I started, but I never stopped. I now collect lots of money for one particular charity and I have several venues where the manager is happy for me to perform. I quite often get a free drink and occasionally they recommend me when someone books a private function at the pub.

pick your night carefully... avoid the pub quiz, the live band, and the karoke night and any major sporting events on the TV.

Pub magic is unlikely to provide a regular long term income (unless you can boost the number of drinks sold on a 'dead night' in the same way that a regular pub quiz night can boost the profits.) Use pubs to gain the (rough, hard) experience and you'll find that restaurants, house parties and weddings are much easier and friendlier.

U can start by doing some easy to do card tricks, or some tricks with common objects. But i prefer to go on some site and get a real illusionsint CD or eBook!

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Welcome RealRobert - but are you using your first forum post to try to sell your products?

Hi Robert

Different magicians have different opinions and go for what works for you.

I'm in the camp that believes that if you want experience then go out and get it by any means how. If you have to do a few gigs for free then why not? I've done a few in my time and have then picked up bookings from the customers.

Make sure that you get a bar that's busy though. You don't want to be entertaining the bar staff all night.

Good luck

judging from you post my advice is go with your gut. You have a good head on your shoulders, your argument is well thought out and perfectly legit. I'd use the suggestions already mentioned.

Go the the manager with confidence and let him know how you would be an asset to his business.