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Eshly wrote:What's the differences between the Cups and Balls and INDIAN cups and balls?

You being a racist? Is that the difference?
Or was this supposed to be a lead in to a joke....? in which case..... I don't know, what's the difference between cups and balls and indian cups and balls?

I do know that the cups are a different shape - like shallow globlets for the Indian Cups and Balls.

But I'm not particularly clued up as to routining for the ICAB.

There seems to be loads of footage on YouTube though.

This guy is showing a traditional Indian Cups & Balls routine to show how it fiffers from the Western version, but I notice he still uses a Vernon Wand Spin. . There are some nice sleights at play here though. And there are plenty more videos of the effect online.

Eshly wrote:What's the differences between the Cups and Balls and INDIAN cups and balls?

No, Its a perfectly justified question if the history of cups and balls isnt your thing.
Tom, Indian cups and balls, differs somewhat to teh cups as we do them.

The Indian cups are shallow dishes, with a single knob on the top, which acts like a handle.
In performance you often pick up the cup, by sliding your hand palm down, over the bowl of the cup, picking it up between the index, and middle fingers.
this makes loads and steels from the heel palm, and clasic palm possible.

The more traditional European cups that you see here, follow the egyptian pattern, in that they are tall,tapered, and they can be stacked in a tower.
This design makes finger palming , more practical.

the reason that the designs are so different, comes from the way that they are performed. Indian street magicians sit on the ground. Audiences look down on the cups. so a broad flat dish looks better, and the handle on the top, means the performer can pick them up . The handle also means that they wont stack, so the effect is based around a transposition, and surprise production, rather than penetration , as in the european cups and ball routine.


I hope this brief explanation helps.

If you watch the videos you will see.

Thank you Dale, that was very helpful. I always thought Cups and Balls was about transportation - as it probably should be.

I've a feeling I may prefer the Indian version, it sounds a bit more magical. I've always wanted to go to an Indian Restauant and see a Fakir or someone performing; it amazes me that never happens, because I reccon it would get very good buisness in, what a novelty!

you may also research bowl routines, that use a single rice bowl.
Few do it, and it's quite magical.

daleshrimpton wrote:you may also research bowl routines, that use a single rice bowl.
Few do it, and it's quite magical.

Jeff McBride would be an good starting point.

The western influence on the bowl routine, Is Benson.
Indeed it's often refered to as a benson bowl, though it has its routes in the east, along with the cups, and the rice bowls.
Its facinating to see how many of the classics kind of meet isnt it?

daleshrimpton wrote:The western influence on the bowl routine, Is Benson.

Indeed. There is a Benson Bowl pdf manuscript available somewhere for a few small dollars that kept me entertained on a train journey home. Doesn't teach anything earth shattering but it's interesting to see the presentation.

Johnny Thompson taught it on a video once, and that clip has made it onto the World's Greatest Magic Sponge Balls DVD. There's a nice touch in this version that makes it scarily convincing. (Although not quite as scary as the 1970's bowl he is doing it with).