talkmagic.co.uk

There is a trick which Derren Brown performs on Trick of the Mind series 2.

In it, two spectators randomly shuffle cards beneath a table, and then both turn over one random card (which no one can see). Purely by chance this turns out to be the same card!

Derren uses a gimmicked deck to achieve this, as do I, as it allows the ENTIRE performance to be done hands-off; at no point do you touch the deck. You can perform this same trick (taught in the same ebook) with a non-gimmicked deck, but it requires a lot of slight of hand and cannot work one two people at once.


Tom
xx

Is a regular deck of cards necessary? No, because you can do magic with pretty much anything you pick up from the table. But the purpose of the event is to give someone a valid reason to question their reality, even if it's for the briefest moment of time.

If their perception of a deck of cards is that it is simply 52 pieces of card with the same image on the back as all the others, and certain consistent images on their faces, and you have the opportunity to use that expectation to help them gain that moment of wonder, why would you not take it?

If you are worried that people suspect a trick deck of cards use this line

Here is a pack of perfectly normal cards, every one different and there are 52 of them

This will stop people thinking you are using a trick deck of cards.

Eshly wrote:Derren uses a gimmicked deck to achieve this, as do I

Is there nothing he does you don't do?

My amazing mentalism skills predict your next trick you are going to do in your "stage show" will be... no... that'd be spoiling Enigma, wouldn't it...

Arkesus wrote:Is a regular deck of cards necessary? No, because you can do magic with pretty much anything you pick up from the table. But the purpose of the event is to give someone a valid reason to question their reality, even if it's for the briefest moment of time.

If their perception of a deck of cards is that it is simply 52 pieces of card with the same image on the back as all the others, and certain consistent images on their faces, and you have the opportunity to use that expectation to help them gain that moment of wonder, why would you not take it?

Excellent answer.

Just for the record, I was not saying 'pfft.. whats magic for!!?' But hoping more along the lines of getting people to think more like ^^ that.

Science has Occum's rasor, I think magicians should have the 'ego rasor': if you can explain the purpose of an effect without it really being to make you look clever, then it survives. If not, set fire to you're cards, gimmicked or otherwise because you are ruining magic.

I am against the use of trick decks, sure some people, like the begginers just buying things like 'Marvins Magic' sets or other little sets may find them useful . I do own alot of them, and they're nice to play with. But the only reason I have them is firstly they can indeed give inspiration for tricks, but mainly on occasion I have a few kids coming up to me wanting to learn magic and keep the dream alive, sometimes I like to let them in on the magic, and th way I do that is to give them a gimmick of some sort, that way they are still learning, the fire really starts up in them and their friends really start to get interested, which is their first step. And I personally love it when others are interested. Even if they accidentally give the secrest away, they are only giving the secret of a gimmicked deck away, not the secet to what myself or other magicians do.

A magician should be able to do ANYTHING, at least in the minds of others, if you spend your time with a gimmicked deck, no matter which one you use, you will get people asking you to do tricks, and what if you have nothing on you? Maybe they have a pack of cards, they will offer them to you to perform with, yes you MAY be able to do other tricks, but sometimes you will get someone requesting a trick. Okay its not always best to perform one just selected, but it is not always best to refuse either. If you use a gimmicked deck then there may be a time where you cannot perform it, maybe you haven't got your cards, or maybe you've just done the trick. Either way you can't do that trick.

Remember a magician should be able to do ANYTHING, and ANYTIME, so always be ready. I say don't use trick decks on the off chance you are faced with a real deck. A friend will tell his/her friend about the trick, and if they get he same card, they will suspect. Gimmicked are okay to use as a beginer yes, I agree with that, but as you get more into magic, only rarely should you use ANY gimmick, cards or otherwise.

I am against them. Personal opinion, yes, but everyone is entitled, and this is mine.

kolm wrote:

Eshly wrote:Derren uses a gimmicked deck to achieve this, as do I

Is there nothing he does you don't do?

My amazing mentalism skills predict your next trick you are going to do in your "stage show" will be... no... that'd be spoiling Enigma, wouldn't it...

You're whole post was designed to annoy me. Please stop it.

I agree with elshy , I have noticed a few of your post aimed at him. So what the boy has a thing about Derren.

I don't see what all the fuss is about a trick deck is the same as a TT same as a coin ***l etc etc, we will so be getting on to the whole gimmick vs sleight argument.

They are all tools at the end of the day.

Ah, yes. Those silly children and their box store magic sets. Svengali, Stripper, Mene Tekel, and other childrens rubbish trick decks would never grace the pages of, oh say, Encyclopedia of Card Tricks. Well, if you rip out Chapters 13-16 anyway.

There are many a card worker who use nothing but a Stripper and only utilize it's principle when needed. And when they do, I assure you that it's used for waaaaaaay more than tracking a single card. As an example, a Stripper with multiple stacks can make for a brilliant performance. Or a Si Stebbins stack.

Contrary to popular belief, a Svengali can be shuffled. It can also be spread and fanned. You can use any number of "legit" forces to force a card other than the deck's key card. Hindu force the first, Cross Cut force the second, use the Sven to force the third. Now you have three unique cards in play having used three extremely easy forces. No big whoop.

These decks are tools. To get the most from them, you must think beyond the instruction sheet example tricks. The examples are only there to example the workings and handling of the gimmick.

Markdini wrote:If you are worried that people suspect a trick deck of cards use this line

Here is a pack of perfectly normal cards, every one different and there are 52 of them

This will stop people thinking you are using a trick deck of cards.

I don't know about that. Wouldn't stating the obvious be kind of suspicious and silly. I figure the best way to simply handle the gimmick deck or whatever, the exact same way you handle a normal deck of deck. Casually and without guilt.

As for the whole trick deck thing, There are certain things you can do with a trick deck, that your can't do with a normal deck. Gimmick decks also leave you open to focus on what REALLY matters, and that's the presentation and the audience. Sense you don't have to worry about flashing this or that sleight. Because in the end, what really matters to most lay people is the presentation. That's what most will remember the most.

Magia San wrote:
Remember a magician should be able to do ANYTHING, and ANYTIME, so always be ready. I say don't use trick decks on the off chance you are faced with a real deck.

Is the obvious concept not to simpy be aquainted with both?

A friend will tell his/her friend about the trick, and if they get he same card, they will suspect.

Yes because a good magician will always repeat the same effect twice for the same audience.

Gimmicked are okay to use as a beginer yes, I agree with that, but as you get more into magic, only rarely should you use ANY gimmick, cards or otherwise.

Well, I am sure David Copperfield, Mac King, Lance Burton, Penn & Teller, Scott Penrose and countless others who have made a packet from gimmicks and props over the years, will welcome your advice.

I'm not meaning to sound like I am being picky here, but the sheer size of the holes in your logic gives me reason to point them out.

I disagree , in today's world everything is spelt out for people from PAY HERE signs in the supermarket to Drive on the left signs in Dover.

So the more obvious someone makes it the less chance you got being called using a trick deck.

Markdini wrote:I disagree , in today's world everything is spelt out for people from PAY HERE signs in the supermarket to Drive on the left signs in Dover.

So the more obvious someone makes it the less chance you got being called using a trick deck.

I once used a stooge.

Good fun.

But anyway... I made a point of explicitly saying 'And neither of you are stooges, correct? That would count as cheating '. One spectator was not a stooge and knew nothing- which when that person testified to their friends, made it even more credible.

Afterwards the genuine spectator came to me and said: 'Even if he was a stooge, which I know he wasn't, it would be incredible but.. what the hell!? amazing!' or words to that effect.

Of course, I rarley mention stooges at all to be honest although on occasion when I feel it may be an incorrect but natural thing to assume. But because I made a casual quip, that was the only time the person thought 'It can't be a stooge'. Its not very logical- because I said so and because a possible stooge said so, it cannot be- but neither is it logical to assume that a lay person's mind works by going 'hmm.. he mentioned stooges- which means he must be a stooge!!!' in fact, quite the opposite- the assumption would be that the last thing I would mention if I was using stooges, was a stooge.

At the end of the day, people buy disclaimers: 'I don't use stooges. I'll give you 100 pounds if you can prove it.' That claim alone is enough to assure people so much nobody will ever attempt to prove it and you could use as many stooges as you wish. Its potentially a very powerful bluff.

Its quite simple and its this thing called common sense. If you're being suspicious- stop it.

I guess what this all boils down to is personal style. Some people can get away with doing this or that, while others can't.

Remember a magician should be able to do ANYTHING, and ANYTIME, so always be ready. I say don't use trick decks on the off chance you are faced with a real deck.

I think that if the situation allows you to use a trick deck, and that's the effect you want to create do it. I wouldn't carry more than one deck of cards doing a walk around gig, but if I was at home, and a friend said show us something, then I might grab a trick deck.

Also the invisble deck is very powerful, and I use that a lot too - just please not the 'shuffle this invisble pack of cards - oh wait! take them out the invisble box!' - argh!!!

btw... before I forget Mental Photography Deck
Loves it!
because of this, I'm gonna practice it and do it at the next Manchester meet.