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well, my prediction was actually a two-way out...it was either going to be "only agrees on his own terms", or "a huge aeolistic response that he'll regret later..."

IAIN wrote:well, my prediction was actually a two-way out...it was either going to be "only agrees on his own terms", or "a huge aeolistic response that he'll regret later..."

sh*t....

I can't argue there.


*Double bind, Iain.

That was some very good advice thank you. Yeah I've seen RGM and I really like it, I'd want to do it with more than just cards but the concept is amazing. I have an effect like it but not nearly as well done called cerebral steal however I want LJs version . Is it taught on Skullduggery?

I suppose all I really need to do now is get some material and practice my ass off. I am trying to find bloody Building Blocks but I've still had no luck. So while that's no where to be seen I think it's Trance formations that wins.

I saw Martin Taylor a while ago, as I'm sure most of you know, the one who inspired Derren Brown. Who does hypnosis without hypnosis. So all of that must have been suggestion? If he can do that without the 'trance state' (whatever that is) then why do people bother to create the 'trance state'? I'm a little confused if I'm honest.

"the one who inspired Derren Brown" edit - I'm fairly certain he's not the only person in the world to have inspired Mr DB himself however the hypnotist who got Derren interested in hypnotism.

a) If you can get trance-formations and Building Blocks then that would be great. Keep trying and you will succeed. Trance-formations does assume that you know a little bit about NLP beforehand, which is why reading their Milton Erickson books are very useful. Most Magicians seem to dislike NLP because it is a new agey religion almost today, but the old books are really fantastic.

b) Cerebral steal is an evolution of RGM which in my opinion is brilliant. However, I prefer how Jermay creates amnesia. It is taught on skullduggery, yes. He is always plugging 'Psychological subtleties' by Banachek on it, which I can't condemn him for.

c) That is a very good question about trance which is something I cannot go into right now. If you want to get into hypnosis then I would reccomend 'Reality is Plastic' by Anthony Jacquin as a starting point, the man is gentleman too and if you mention you are into mentalism then he will give you some excellent pdfs. As a matter of fact, if my memory serves 'Building Blocks' is cited in the bibliography of R.I.P. Finally, As I have mentioned before, the NLP stuff (in my opinion) is also great stuff for learning hypnosis and you can't go far wrong other than reading up on Milton Erickson.

d) As Iain said, some of the stuff I have mentioned might be a little bit extensive if you are simply curious. Definatley get Building Blocks in that case. If not, get Building Blocks anyway (keep trying!) and if you are still enthusiastic then the other books are great to look into.

e) I am extremley tired so I will end here.

Original poster, consider your self PM'd!

Hi everyone,
Building Blocks has a great reputation. I've read about half the book in dribs and drabs and what I've read is very good. People obviously havnt been looking very hard... Theres a copy here.. going fast though.

Good luck x

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Luke-Jermay-Build ... 2c56fa52a0

£200??!!! It's good but not that good!

Thank you very much for all of your help. I already have some material on hypnosis, The manchurian approach I liked it but I feel it didn't go into enough detail so I've got a lot of old book buying which I like so that's alright.

Yeah I don't think I'm getting building blocks at £200 I may as well get a lot of other books at that price. I always seems to want things when they are out of print.

Right so I've brought Skullduggery which I really like. For Andruzzi is amazing. I can make my pulse slow down but not stop entirely, my suggestion still needs work. I have tried RGM and I just don't see how it would work :/. The whole convincer thing doesn't seem to work with the people i've done it on. I'm scared to do RGM. Guess I've got a lot of praticing to do.

How do you even practice suggestion? [/i]

90% of suggestion is the right 'enviroment'. By this I mean psychological enviroment; if you put someone infront of 100 people and with absolute nonchalance tell them something which they have no reason to question, then suggestion will work. In a classroom, I have seen far too many times, someone always pretends to smell a smell. Everyone else seems to apparantly smell the smell too mysteriously. It is the enviroment and situation.

The thing with RGM is that Jermay is in a formal setting, which for hypnosis and suggestion makes a HUGE difference; for me anyway. In a social setting you are 'equals' which is useless for suggestion. In a formal setting you have authority, which is incredibly important in suggestion as some elimentary psychology will tell you. This is why hypnotists will say that using family and friends is not particularly advisable as you do not have the authority and 'identity' of someone bearing mystical powers over someone's mind; which seeing as it is all about belief, if they believe- is true.

With specific regard to RGM, doing it the way Jermay does it you have to be careful not to frame it as a challange. If you genuinley can get away with telling someone they are going to forget something no matter how hard they try and the context and psychological enviroment is right, they will believe you and surrender to your 'powers'. If you misjudge then some will percieve it as a challenge to demonstrate that they are impervious to your mesmerising powers. This just sets it up for failure.

A good question then is how to create the so-called 'enviroment'? Well there are various methods you can employ; One might be giving basic, but pointless instructions to the spectator which some would term 'eliciting compliance': 'Just stand right there.. face me, ok- hands down please, thanks' in a casual and insignificant remark and moving swiftly on. Rapport, which I'm sure you're probably familiar with, can also be useful if used skillfully.

I would write how I do RGM with my script, but without going into all the theory behind it, then you might ignore something which has been carefully crafted. For the time being, remember confidence, and enviroment. If RGM fails, there are some outs as I mentioned before. If you become afraid, you loose confidence, which in turn makes you loose your ability to use suggestion which in turn makes you loose confidence ad nauseum. Just simply use suggestion where you have 'outs'. With suggestion for most of the time if it fails then there is not always a 'perfect' out- but it can be resolved. But, If you don't go down, you can never go up.

That smell thing was a very good example it makes sense.

Yeah I think I'm starting to understand it more fully now. I've read a few things about the power of suggestion in Predictably Irresistible reading around the subject really helps which you recommended. By the way thank you Samgurney you've been a lot of help with this.

I went to Davenports and found 7 Deceptions I'm very happy that I found this because I think it teaches the suggestion based effects better than Skullduggery having both is very good.

Yeah I am starting to understand that it is all about expectations and how much they think you can do what you claim to do. I am trying to find ways of making it work even when I am perceived as an equal. So I need to work on building my prestige and then claiming that I can make someone forget a card. However I'm not sure what is the best way to do this. I have a few ideas:

1. Claim that this is my most talked about trick (so they realise subconsciously that it has worked a lot before and will work with them)

2. Reassure them that no matter how they feel that this will work in it's own time and pace... luke jermay's idea of appearing honest "Don't lie to make me look good"

I have also though of other ways to make it stronger for me:

1. Anchor the feeling for forgetting something

Also I understand what you mean about not framing it as a challenge because I had someone name the card and say that he was saying it over and over again in his head so he wouldn't forget it. However I don't know how to not frame it as a challenge. I though maybe I could put the idea across that only clever people forget their card which will make them want to forget their card but I have no idea how to phrase this idea in the performance.

I appreciate these are just lists of ideas at the moment but. I'm getting there and you're helping. I hadn't thought to use the idea of meaningless instructions I have used it before in another context. I will use that next time.

I think suggestion is a personal thing in which we need to discover what works best for us so I understand what you mean when you say I might miss out on important parts. So confidence and environment you say? I will work on both.