talkmagic.co.uk

Just wondered what other's felt about this?

All groups will have a degree of separation as a community, accepting new members on a case by case basis but I do wonder if things become a bit hostile here at times to the newer members/outsiders.

For those of us that have braved the baptism of fire, the heated discussions are just part of the norm but for people new to the idea of online forums it might be quite an off-putting atmosphere.

For magic in particular this could be a big problem. When I visited my local magic society, of the 20 or so people there only 2 or 3 used computers on a regular basis, many of the "older" generation were not keen on the idea at all.

It would just be a shame for new members to be put off (or even existing long standing members bullied out) due to obliviousness to this, I emphasise obliviousness (partly because I am not sure it is a real word) mainly as I believe it may be something the vast majority of us are guilty of and do not even realise we are doing.

Of course I may be completely mistaken in this, in which case ignore my witterings, I just wondered if anyone else had thought the same?

Is this forum too cliquey

short answer no.

Long answer?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.


oh dont get me wrong there are cliques on here. but since Im in most of them, i dont notice that much

That said, i can asure you that there are some incredibly Cliquey forums out there, that i avoid like the plague.

buthis isnt one of them.. Obviously.

ok, the mentalists stick together, and teh card guys , and the kids magicians, ect.. but thats because of the genre of magic they perform, is their thing.
Trust me, you want cliquey.. join an amdram society.

I've noticed a fair few squabbles over the last year or so. There was one rather unpleasant chap who made a lot of trouble up to around Christmas (I think?) and then, shortly after he left, we've had one or two people who have created negativity for whatever reason. This has caused some strong reactions and perhaps this has come across as being cliquey.

I personally think that this is a very accepting forum. One guy I have in mind has caused enormous offence to some for a while, and enormous amounts of frustration for others (on this and another forum). And yet he still asks questions here and still receives sensible answers. That's not bad going, I reckon. Members on the other forum won't deal with him at all now, it seems.

Also, the fact that so many seem to know each other in real life shows what a community it really is. Hurray!

T.

On many levels TM is certainly not as clique filled as certain others and yet, it does offer special "invitation only" sections it would seem for one or two "special" individuals... I'm not poking at the situation, just pointing out that it exists and as such, it creates political favoritism around the greater whole that is TM... kind of like "the home team can't be beat" sort of thing.

As an American looking in, I do see and feel a great deal of segregation in this group and even bias at times. Then again, I've seen how certain forms of poison and mis-communication (misunderstanding) of my posts have added to that division; one element here making me (personally) out as some kind of mega rip-off artist by spinning some of the posts I've made and using that as an example vs. the exception, etc. Somehow, that has included a post I made about how the laws are cracking down on groups like Pirate's Bay, being spun against me.

So yes, cliques happen and oft time it is due to bar room gossip and social-political ladder climbing; common elements within any large "club" like atmosphere, mind you. I've seen it in just about every sort of organization out there on one level or another, but it is the sort of happenstance that not just creates bad blood, it creates some very ugly long term damage -- ramifications most aren't foreseeing or at least, have the foresight to consider. In long run it can hurt the forum itself (just look at the ugly reputation of the Magic Cafe because of this mode of game playing and of course, the top heavy management NAZI's it's put into faux power)

Would TM ever reach the level of segregation and "selection" so as to boot off people that speak ill of an advertiser or favorite son of the forum? The cafe does it regularly and it's the supposed "standard" of what a Magic forum is all about... a "flag ship'... one that btw, stole every single aspects of what it was originally, from other successful forums and that includes membership lists.

Are we (TM) heading in that direction?

I pray that's not the case, but I think we older members need to step back and put ourselves in check, given some aspects of the favoritism and jaded attitudes that have become woven into the fabric.

Maybe.

I've always wondered why it's only a few new members who seem to stay the course and become a part of the forum. Sometimes new members are too cocky, sometimes they're too dumb, sometimes they don't get the answers they want 'just like that' and sometimes I'm sure they're put off by a bunch of know it alls who are familiar with each other and appear to side together in what could be called a clique.

Thing is, i respect these know it alls completely, and as such listen to their know it all-ness all the time. I'll probably never know as much about magic, it's history, and methods as some on this forum but the point is i don't need to. If i want to know something, i'll ask and - unless i ask in a rude and stupid manner, or one that threatens exposure - I'm pretty sure i'll get a decent response wiv propah grammah und everyfink.

we stay because we have no real friends..





" It's funny because it's true!".....Homer simpson.

The only time that I have felt like an outsider was due to a difference of dialect.

As Grimshaw pointed out, there are a number of people who join but don't then participate. Look at the first 3 or so pages in the Introductions forum. The threads go back to May/June yet if you click them you'll see that the majority of the new members have a post count of 10 or less. Why? I dunno.

I think there are groups of people who are on here a lot who have 'in jokes' & such but if someone asks a reasonable question, is truthful & not claiming to be the next big thing then most of the time things are dealt with in an adult way.

I maybe bypassed the hassle by having a link to a website & introducing myself properly. Some newbies don't & people note the username for future reference. I don't comment on everything I read & pick & choose my responses. I don't think I'm in any of the cliques & don't really want to be but if people ask properly then there's no need for any hassle.

I don't think it's too cliquey, I think it's too honest. People get shot down all the time, rightfully so sometimes, but there are certain people who don't 'gel' with others and form sorts of personal attacks, I'm sure you can think of a few examples without mentioning names...

Is it any worse than other 'communitys' I couldn't possibly tell you, but I can say that the help and advice here has been invaluable, and most of the attacks aren't personal. Text just doesn't always convey the same message.

phillipnorthfield wrote:Text just doesn't always convey the same message.

Agreed, all too oft i think things are posted without too much thought just to get a point across. Like russpie i pick and choose the things i respond to. I sometimes write a response, think it through and then scrub it, just happy to watch from the side lines. I think the only time i've got really involved was on the climate change 'science' debate.

There is many a good thing to be taken from the forum, and it's worth biting your lip sometimes for them.

I don't post on here much these days, but I can say, unequivocally, that this is one of the friendliest and most accepting forums on the internet.

No matter where you go, cliques will exist. I've found that the Talk Magic forums and the members herein accept into their cliques almost anyone who is reasonable in attitude and honest in nature. New members (assuming that they don't come in with a nasty or "all knowing" demeanor) are welcomed almost without question.

I'd put Talk Magic into the top three best forums for magic on the internet; in fact, I'd even put them one ahead of Magic Bunny for overall friendliness and good fellowship.

This is an exceptional forum run by exceptional people. Just good people, these mods and admins here on TM. And the members that hang out here are second to none.

That's my opinion, at least.

Mike.

I have looked at other forums but have never found any to be as friendly or helpful as this. If some people use the forum more than others and get to know each other use in jokes is not cliquey - it's friendly.

I would dearly like to get to one of the forum get togethers but havn't bhad the chance yet.

yes it is cliquey, as is all life...

and yes, you'll get people who'll insist that their own personal view and bias is the right one, and that butter wouldn't melt...

just like real life...

dont worry about cliques - you'll naturally become friends with some people on here just as you would down the pub...

just relax and carry on...we all dissappear when you log off...

if you're lucky you get to make real friends on here over time, or unlucky depending on how you get on inreality...

if you approach forums like you would in real life, i feel personally its better in the long run, the truth will out...

I've found this place to be open and accepting. But it is clique there is no doubt about it in my mind. Unfortunatly I think it is only natural. Like everything else in life you have to put into it, what you want to get out of it. It is a little bit of a 'battle' to get into the thick of things but if you are honest and open and try and keep positive and most important listen, (which goes back to the 'open' thing).

I manage to get offended when magic dealers are attacked, or when American's are 'bashed' although I've noticed that American bashing has calmed down some since certain people have left. But that sort of non sense goes on everywhere.

Even those that are annoying and fustrating get responses. some get attacked because of questions asked and then the asker tells you why that can't possibly work, (even though you have been doing it for years) There are those that assumes their beliefs to be absolute truths and display them as facts. My point is that even as nieve, frustrating and closed minded as some are. People here are still willing to listen to and try to help. So how bad could this place possibly be?

Recently I've joined another board and it is very much like this one, although there seems to be a certain hostility towards this place on that board. But I manage to stay out of the politics and I really don't care. Nor do I care about the cliqueness of a group...Probably because eventually everyone annoys me equally.

Yes I've edited this.

Sometimes... But not really