The Four Little Beans

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The Four Little Beans

Postby jbmagic » Apr 25th, '05, 19:25



The Four Little Beans is a John Ramsay routine in the book The Ramsay Classics which is part of the Ramsay trilogy.

Does anyone know of a source that this effect is documented other that the Ramsay book?

I do know it is down in print somewhere else but don't know where!

Any help on this would be appreciated.....thanks :)

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Postby jbmagic » Apr 29th, '05, 18:43

Just an update on this one...I have now been loaned the book with the routine in by a fellow magician friend. So well happy now! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby BobGreaves » Apr 29th, '05, 18:50

I don't know the Ramsey book, but I understand that this effect (neither credited to Ramsey - so it may not be the same effect) is written up in one of John Tremaine's books as something like "Superman" and in Magic for Dummies (different title - not sure).
I may be completely off track here, but it is just my guess.
Bob

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Postby jbmagic » May 1st, '05, 10:38

BobGreaves wrote:I don't know the Ramsey book, but I understand that this effect (neither credited to Ramsey - so it may not be the same effect) is written up in one of John Tremaine's books as something like "Superman" and in Magic for Dummies (different title - not sure).
I may be completely off track here, but it is just my guess.
Bob


Thanks Bob, I will have to check that out, I think you may be right about the Tremaine book as I recall it being mentioned before somewhere! :)

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cross checked and varified!

Postby David Deanie » May 7th, '05, 17:09

Just was searching on something and this topic came up! I checked out the book and it is in the "Amazing book of magic " by John Tremaine. Superman is the name of the effect- credited to Alex Natus from south Africa in 1950, Alex who? Well, a business man who knew only two tricks. He was shown it by his father...so on and so forth!

that's a little light shed on that subject! Page 110 if anyone is interested- and I might just add that the book is full of great material! Well worth a look!


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Re: cross checked and varified!

Postby jbmagic » May 7th, '05, 20:41

David Deanie wrote:Just was searching on something and this topic came up! I checked out the book and it is in the "Amazing book of magic " by John Tremaine. Superman is the name of the effect- credited to Alex Natus from south Africa in 1950, Alex who? Well, a business man who knew only two tricks. He was shown it by his father...so on and so forth!

that's a little light shed on that subject! Page 110 if anyone is interested- and I might just add that the book is full of great material! Well worth a look!


David


Thanks David, I was aware that the routine was in the Tremaine book but when I searched for it on the net I was quoted under a tenner from the USA but over £30 from Amazon's UK site which seems strange. As it happens I have now borrowed the Ramsay book from a friend but would be still interested in the Tremaine book as you say it is full of great material.

On the credit of this effect....Andrew Galloway states in the Ramsay book, that John Ramsay of Ayrshire, got the idea for the effect from one of the first sleight of hand tricks Ramsay learnt as a boy and was based on the Classic Marbles Trick, from Sleight of Hand by Sachs published in the late 1800s, Victor Farelli produced a booklet of the effect in 1952, although Farelli's routine was of an oriental performer doing the trick.

There is no mention of this Mr Alex Natus anywhere and if the Tremaine book is trying to say he predates Ramsay...then that's a pretty controversial claim to make......

I am not trying to stir anything up, only echoing what Jerry Sadowitz might say, our American friends can sometimes be pretty good at predating things to make it look like they invented them or thought of them first.....But who am I to judge Mr Tremaine, as I can only go on what I have read, as Jerry would say, anyone can write a book and put a date in it, how can you prove them wrong....very difficult and the date is now in print for ever.

As it happens, Ramsay, according to Galloway, was developing and refining his routine over a 60 year period, during this time he was performing his routine constantly to both magicians and lay people, before it was finally published in the Ramsay Classics book.

It also states that Ramsay and Vernon, used the Chinese Marble Trick as a starting point for developing two different routines, namely The Four Little Beans.....Ramsay, and the Three Ball Routine.....Vernon!

The point is, you would think that Mr Tremaine could have given some credit to John Ramsay, who could be said to be, if not Scotland's greatest magician of all time, one of Scotland's greatest magicians or even some credit to Mr Farelli for this routine, but he chose to credit a relative unknown ie. Mr Natus, and if he claims to have not heard of Ramsay, he should have done more research as Dia Vernon wrote of his friend John Ramsay....

"Just to digest the thinking of this genius of legerdemain should be a priceless acquisition"!

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I may have opened a can of beans!

Postby David Deanie » May 10th, '05, 14:37

I can see what problems this could cause! On a side note there was a for sale add on magicweek for the Tremaine book for £10 -not sure if it is still available!

I'm going to look into this one! I'm sure there is alot more than meets the eye here! I am sure many things have been said in books- I wonder how they can all be backed up!


I'll update on anything I find out!


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Postby BobGreaves » May 10th, '05, 19:57

To be fair to John Tremaine, he didn't say Mr Natus invented it. He just said he learnt it from Mr Natus. That's all.
The book by the way is often in libraries and often quite cheap on eBay.

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Postby BobGreaves » May 10th, '05, 19:59

In addition, no beans were mentioned I think. I seem to remember that the whole thing was done with silver foil.

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Postby BobGreaves » May 10th, '05, 20:00

(keep thinking of new things).
I put the 2 together when I saw the beans version in Dummies. The Tremaine version I think had a cleaner ending though.

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